Behaviour and manners

[Dry Rot]

There's a distinct difference to the child's action being unacceptable to the child itself being the problem.

I don't have kids but I have a long experience in training animals (some teaching!)....and there's not much difference actually! You have to make whatever you are training realise that, whether it is a dog, horse, or child, it is the action not the subject.

 

[ollie989898]

Manners cost nothing and they will get you a long way in life. The problem comes from having none of them and having to learn them later in adult life. Virtually every vocation there is involves communicating with other human beings.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

There's a distinct difference to the child's action being unacceptable to the child itself being the problem.

I don't have kids but I have a long experience in training animals (some teaching!)....and there's not much difference actually! You have to make whatever you are training realise that, whether it is a dog, horse, or child, it is the action not the subject.

4.5-5 hours in a plane with a 6-7 year old who's acting it up because he knows his parents can't control him basically píssed off the surrounding 40 people....
If you can't control or discipline your childen then don't take them on a fúcking plane!!!

 

[Dry Rot]

4.5-5 hours in a plane with a 6-7 year old who's acting it up because he knows his parents can't control him basically píssed off the surrounding 40 people....
If you can't control or discipline your childen then don't take them on a fúcking plane!!!

Pop him out the emergency exit...in a kind and caring way?

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Pop him out the emergency exit...in a kind and caring way?

I would believe that I wasn't the only person tempted to do that...
That said given my current "apperance" I could have gone up to them saying "OH OH OH".
Which apparently is what the Antisanta says to misbehaving children who's Christmas presents get stolen just after they have been delivered.... allegedly.

 

[HatsOff]

You absolutely will be whacked by another adult if you do some things you shouldn't!

Oh yeah? Leaving out alcohol, when was the last time you were hit by another adult as a way to correct your behavior?

 

[MRT]

Oh yeah? Leaving out alcohol, when was the last time you were hit by another adult as a way to correct your behavior?

I behave myself!

 

[HatsOff]

I behave myself!

Alright, when was the last time you hit an adult to correct their behavior?

(I get self-defense, fighting etc happens, but just to get someone to stop doing something they shouldn't be doing, the default isn't violence. How can that be different when dealing with children?)

 

[MRT]

Alright, when was the last time you hit an adult to correct their behavior?

(I get self-defense, fighting etc happens, but just to get someone to stop doing something they shouldn't be doing, the default isn't violence. How can that be different when dealing with children?)

Tell you what, stop paying your bills and buy yourself a new flash car, pat every woman you see on the behind, give little kids a shove when they get in your way and let me know how you got on in a month.

 

[HatsOff]

Alright, when was the last time you hit an adult to correct their behavior?

Tell you what, stop paying your bills and buy yourself a new flash car, pat every woman you see on the behind, give little kids a shove when they get in your way and let me know how you got on in a month.

OK so you think that behavior would reasonably incur violence upon an adult? Fair enough, I could see that happening.

What do children need to do to warrant violence? Make a mess, speak when not being spoken to - what level of misbehavior is needed for violence to be meted out on them?

My overall point is that we generally don't inflict violence except in extreme. Therefore it should basically never be an option when disciplining children and is only used because of the massive power imbalance.

 

[MRT]

OK so you think that behavior would reasonably incur violence upon an adult? Fair enough, I could see that happening.

What do children need to do to warrant violence? Make a mess, speak when not being spoken to - what level of misbehavior is needed for violence to be meted out on them?

My overall point is that we generally don't inflict violence except in extreme. Therefore it should basically never be an option when disciplining children and is only used because of the massive power imbalance.

From my experience of human nature I would expect if you were to behave in that way around the general population for a period of time, say 30 days you would receive a physical/violent reprimand. So I stand by my assertion that you will be whacked by another adult if you behave in certain ways. The above suggestions are probably not an exhaustive list.

Children are all different. My impulsive son was last smacked by me on the behind (hard) for running out into the road at 11 years old. He is alive, happy, confident and looks both ways before he crosses the road and tbh you can take your virtue and shove it up your arse if you think that is unreasonable.

 

[Sam Partridge]

It's the screens that wind me up with our eldest daughter. She would look at tv or i pad all day if we let her! The next two are not bothered and walk away from tv to play with toys! The youngest (4) has sat on the tractor spreading muck with me for most of the day and I love it although answering 60 questions an hour can get very tiring!

I know I'm going to get an earful back for this but I would ask you to seriously reconsider taking your young children in the tractor. I know you're going to say its on flat land, steady speed, simple work etc but its just not worth the risk. Fairly sure it is illegal for under 12s to be in tractors anyhow but even if thats not correct, the consequences of an incident are just not worth it, however unlikely. It is one the hardest things I'm grappling with at the moment. I want the kids to be interested in farming and the easiest way is have them in the cab, but its still not worth the risk.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

OK so you think that behavior would reasonably incur violence upon an adult? Fair enough, I could see that happening.

What do children need to do to warrant violence? Make a mess, speak when not being spoken to - what level of misbehavior is needed for violence to be meted out on them?

My overall point is that we generally don't inflict violence except in extreme. Therefore it should basically never be an option when disciplining children and is only used because of the massive power imbalance.

The law differentiates between violence and appropriate corporal punishment. I will add, that non physical punishment (like the withdrawal of affection) can have a far worse effect on the child.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I know I'm going to get an earful back for this but I would ask you to seriously reconsider taking your young children in the tractor. I know you're going to say its on flat land, steady speed, simple work etc but its just not worth the risk. Fairly sure it is illegal for under 12s to be in tractors anyhow but even if thats not correct, the consequences of an incident are just not worth it, however unlikely. It is one the hardest things I'm grappling with at the moment. I want the kids to be interested in farming and the easiest way is have them in the cab, but its still not worth the risk.

I undertook my own "dynamic risk assessment" and decided, there was more risk the children running around in the yard, than there was, them being in the tractor with me. Really, farm yards should be both children and unauthorised adult free zones, with demarked pedestrian zones. They would be if they were a building site. However, they aren't. Here in Wales the farm house is often in the middle of the farm yard. So looking at all that, children in the cab with me, take precautions like shutting off the engine, when getting out of the cab.

 

[HatsOff]

From my experience of human nature I would expect if you were to behave in that way around the general population for a period of time, say 30 days you would receive a physical/violent reprimand. So I stand by my assertion that you will be whacked by another adult if you behave in certain ways. The above suggestions are probably not an exhaustive list.

Children are all different. My impulsive son was last smacked by me on the behind (hard) for running out into the road at 11 years old. He is alive, happy, confident and looks both ways before he crosses the road and tbh you can take your virtue and shove it up your arse if you think that is unreasonable.

I think I've explained my logic pretty well. That is, we don't generally use violence as adults, why inflict it upon children?

It's how I choose to parent and I explained why in my original post (#90). You were the one trying to say that is how adults communicate and is appropriate in some situations but have only now given a specific example. I think there are many examples of children not running into the road who didn't need to taught via violence but ultimately you need to decide what is best overall for your child.

The law differentiates between violence and appropriate corporal punishment. I will add, that non physical punishment (like the withdrawal of affection) can have a far worse effect on the child.

My understanding of 'violence' in legal terms just requires an intent to harm, whether or not there is an injury. Corporal punishment intends to cause pain so I'm not sure there is any difference at the 'soft' end of violence vs the intended purpose of corporal punishment.

 

[Pistonbroke]

One farmer near here is married to a primary school teacher and their kids have been brought up in the way she has been trained,with all the positive reinforcement and praising etc. You'll never see such c###s of children in your life. They all need an almighty slap across the head and the mother aswell

 

[MRT]

I think I've explained my logic pretty well. That is, we don't generally use violence as adults, why inflict it upon children?

It's how I choose to parent and I explained why in my original post (#90). You were the one trying to say that is how adults communicate and is appropriate in some situations but have only now given a specific example. I think there are many examples of children not running into the road who didn't need to taught via violence but ultimately you need to decide what is best overall for your child.

My understanding of 'violence' in legal terms just requires an intent to harm, whether or not there is an injury. Corporal punishment intends to cause pain so I'm not sure there is any difference at the 'soft' end of violence vs the intended purpose of corporal punishment.

You have explained your logic. My experience of parents who have chosen this route is that they create problems for other people, particularly other vulnerable children and they know it but don't care. Because if asking the child nicely doesn't work and explaining how it makes the child's victims feel doesn't work they have discharged thier duty as parents and can do no more, it is not thier problem. It is a form of moral cowardice.

The only progressive and extremely self-satisfied loudly proclaiming non-smack parents of my youth watched as thier older children inflicted serious physical and lasting psychological harm on their other younger siblings. In my sons school the largest child in the year is non smack parented (by virtuous choice pre ban) and several children left the school as a result of his behaviour, what can the parents do? They are lovely. Accidents happen, younger children accidentally get hospitalised.. all normal, just say sorry.

These kids have had their lives blighted through a lack of appropriate discipline.

 

[Whitewalker]

Teach kids to respect and they won't need smacked , if they respect their parents then a look or a few sharp words are more than enough to draw them into line. If the kids fear their parents from physical corrections then your relationship with them is all wrong.

 

[Hilly]

We never had to smack our kids , stern words and look sorted them … they knew they would be smacked if they over step the line as would an adult .

 

[Dry Rot]

When you come down to it, isn't respect of a person not the fear of what that person might do or could do? Just thinking how sociable animals gain respect in the herd/pack? It is not always by fighting.

I keep well away from PTO shafts because I know what they can do and so respect them! Same with the blunt end of horses. A certain look from a respected parent will be similar to the bifocal stare of a predator! And, let's face it, we are all just sociable animals!