Scotland bans wood stoves😱

[manhill]

I'm fine with having a fire to keep warm in an emergency but they get used all the time, where do you draw the line.
New builds shouldn't need the same level of heating, coal and wood are polluters, not so bad in the countryside but towns and villages on a cold day all with a fire going makes the air horrible.

If I was building new in the countryside you can be certain I would be trying hard to be self-sufficient in power anyway so as not to rely on a power company, even if it involved a generator, common sense again.

We should concentrate on providing cheap reliable power to everyone.

I quite like the smell of burning wood.

 

[M-J-G]

Again a wood burner makes sense as an emergency for a very rural minority but not for regular use in towns and cities. As a result, some people are trying to do something to cut pollution, others make ridiculous arguments just to oppose them.
How do you reduce pollution and ensure they are only used in an emergency?

If you follow your argument through and come to the conclusion that relying on corporates for energy and heat is bad (I agree) you get to a place where being off grid and not relying on them particularly in a remote region makes sense and is preferred.
You could just cut down all the trees and use a stove and candles or you could build a well-insulated modern home that doesn't require as much heating/cooling and invest in your own energy generation.
Using an EV to power your home in an emergency is just one example, it's just a big battery. You could also use solar and wind with battery storage as well (and run your car without petrol/diesel) and would be way more independent, with a generator as a last resort.

To do this though you have to admit the political left 'greenies' have some good ideas, and therein lies the problem.
Everyone wants to be right; no one wants to get it right.

Of course we need alternative fuels going forward, but I won't be so self righteous as to claim to be saving the planet every time I do something that saves fuel, that's mostly done by people who wish to ease their conscience because they do something as ridiculous as fly several times a year, or buy produce that's shipped half way round the globe.

People want renewables, I grow my own timber and mostly harvest the windfall as firewood.
How much more renewable can energy be than something that grows back and is on the doorstep.

 

[M-J-G]

I quite like the smell of burning wood.

It's probably instinctive, most likely because as we evolved the folks who didn't embrace fire died in a cold cave, and the descendants of the few who did make it through the cold without the sense to use fire are and now vote for Hamza Useless.

 

[manhill]

I don't mind a level playing field. Run a natural gas supply to my little plot and I'll stop burning oil or solid fuels or expensive electricity. Yeah and they can make the field level by having a national price for an energy unit. That'll be the day!

 

[ladycrofter]

What are you on about we have way more choices today than we did 100 years ago in ALL the things you mention.

Getting rid of coal fires in new builds should be first as they do so much harm it's common sense. Then wood, then maybe eventually oil and gas (bit early for that as I already mentioned) Ensuring new builds are warm and efficient so they don't need as much heating/cooling is also common sense.
If you live somewhere remote you really should be building in some kind of backup/safety net to supply power if mains supply is cut, again common sense, you don't want to be relying on corporates for power do you, thought you were against that.
Or would you rather sit in the dark round your coal fire.

Like 80% of the world's population. I'm not sure you have a grasp of life in the Highlands. When our lines come down, they stay down. That is, until all the city folk are reconnected. Days. We are north facing and a bit of insulation and a few EV panels are just pissing in the wind. We had 8" packed ice on our farm road one winter, for weeks, shirtsleeves and sun down in the village.
The SNP are hell bent on another Clearances- no A9 upgrade, no copper phone line and wow! the Herald finally twigged that a 1 hour backup is laughable up here, and now, no back up heating.

I know people who got government grants to put in wood fired central heating. WTF now its bad???

 

[HatsOff]

Not having them in new builds does make sense. If you're building a house and don't stuff it with insulation then you're an idiot. But they shouldn't lump wood burners in with gas and oil.

I don't mind a level playing field. Run a natural gas supply to my little plot and I'll stop burning oil or solid fuels or expensive electricity. Yeah and they can make the field level by having a national price for an energy unit. That'll be the day!

An air source heat pump is now cost competitive to oil or LPG and I should think also if you needed to pay for the natural gas line. Electric is 3x the price of.mains gas but well installed ashp 3 to 5 times more energy out.

 

[hoyboy]

I've got a rental property with air source installed on a grant. All well and good but it's a mess of pipes wires and sensors, give that 5 years in a marine environment and it'll be scrap. Look at it this way - say that thing breaks down on Christmas eve. No one on the island knows how to fix it, if they did they're not gonna get parts for it until at least the first week of January. Be a cold miserable couple of weeks that!

 

[yoki]

I've got a rental property with air source installed on a grant. All well and good but it's a mess of pipes wires and sensors, give that 5 years in a marine environment and it'll be scrap. Look at it this way - say that thing breaks down on Christmas eve. No one on the island knows how to fix it, if they did they're not gonna get parts for it until at least the first week of January. Be a cold miserable couple of weeks that!

I was also reading an article on the BBC recently (and they generally love that sort of thing) about the huge advances currently being made in heat pump technology regarding both the efficiency and the heat output itself.

Of-course, they just about managed to mention, and only very briefly, that those who have already fitted, or are currently fitting, heat pumps are wasting their money on what is essentially now already obsolete equipment.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Electric is 3x the price of.mains gas but well installed ashp 3 to 5 times more energy out.

4 x under lab conditions using top end kit and a perfect installation at best. Try it in real-world conditions and you'll never see anything near that.

In general the figures quoted by ASHP manufacturers and their proponents are as bent as the MPG figures car manufacturers come up with.

 

[HatsOff]

4 x under lab conditions using top end kit and a perfect installation at best. Try it in real-world conditions and you'll never see anything near that.

In general the figures quoted by ASHP manufacturers and their proponents are as bent as the MPG figures car manufacturers come up with.

Mines done ok

 

[br jones]

Mines done ok

Had it ,built a property a couple of years ago ,insulated it rather well, this years lpg bill for heating and hot water £378,
Solar panels pay for the electric as purely south facing generating 5000 kw a year
So very close to being free to run

 

[renewablejohn]

We are all aware that they're ferociously polluting right?

What planet are you from. Clean woodstoves are available especially when used with electro static filters.

 

[merino]

What planet are you from. Clean woodstoves are available especially when used with electro static filters.

I do wonder about this thread.

Indoor Air Pollution from Residential Stoves: Examining the Flooding of Particulate Matter into Homes during Real-World Use

This study concerns the levels of particulate matter (PM2.5 and PM1) released by residential stoves inside the home during ‘real world’ use. Focusing on stoves that were certified by the UK’s Department of Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), PM sensors were placed in the vicinity of 20...

www.mdpi.com

Do you really want to pretend?

Environment & Health

In this research project, the contribution of residential solid fuel burning to ambient levels of wintertime PM2.5 was determined in the towns of Killarney, Enniscorthy and Birr. The results show that the burning of peat, coal and wood for home heating is by far the largest source of PM2.5 air...

www.epa.ie

Optical properties and simple forcing efficiency of the organic aerosols and black carbon emitted by residential wood burning in rural central Europe

Abstract. Recent years have seen an increase in the use of wood for energy production of over 30 %, and this trend is expected to continue due to the current energy crisis and geopolitical instability. At present, residential wood burning (RWB) is one of the most important sources of organic...

acp.copernicus.org

That they're not?

Maybe everything would be fine if the flues were filtered to 2.5 microns, but they're not.

 

[robs1]

I do wonder about this thread.

Indoor Air Pollution from Residential Stoves: Examining the Flooding of Particulate Matter into Homes during Real-World Use

This study concerns the levels of particulate matter (PM2.5 and PM1) released by residential stoves inside the home during ‘real world’ use. Focusing on stoves that were certified by the UK’s Department of Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), PM sensors were placed in the vicinity of 20...

www.mdpi.com

Do you really want to pretend?

Environment & Health

In this research project, the contribution of residential solid fuel burning to ambient levels of wintertime PM2.5 was determined in the towns of Killarney, Enniscorthy and Birr. The results show that the burning of peat, coal and wood for home heating is by far the largest source of PM2.5 air...

www.epa.ie

Optical properties and simple forcing efficiency of the organic aerosols and black carbon emitted by residential wood burning in rural central Europe

Abstract. Recent years have seen an increase in the use of wood for energy production of over 30 %, and this trend is expected to continue due to the current energy crisis and geopolitical instability. At present, residential wood burning (RWB) is one of the most important sources of organic...

acp.copernicus.org

That they're not?

Maybe everything would be fine if the flues were filtered to 2.5 microns, but they're not.

Meanwhile tobacco is still sold openly and with government support, is it due to tax take, if people are allowed to smoke in their own home and in outdoor public areas then they should be able to do the same with wood burners.

 

[Dave6170]

The greens are utter scum and are trying to push a heap of eco laws through because they know they’re out at the next election. Hopefully along with the snp

 

[merino]

Meanwhile tobacco is still sold openly and with government support, is it due to tax take, if people are allowed to smoke in their own home and in outdoor public areas then they should be able to do the same with wood burners.

That's not equivalent.
It'd be more like smoking in a bar.

 

[robs1]

That's not equivalent.
It'd be more like smoking in a bar.

Not in a private house it wouldn't be. That isn't the point though is it, smoking is allowed due to the tax take.

 

[renewablejohn]

I do wonder about this thread.

Indoor Air Pollution from Residential Stoves: Examining the Flooding of Particulate Matter into Homes during Real-World Use

This study concerns the levels of particulate matter (PM2.5 and PM1) released by residential stoves inside the home during ‘real world’ use. Focusing on stoves that were certified by the UK’s Department of Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), PM sensors were placed in the vicinity of 20...

www.mdpi.com

Do you really want to pretend?

Environment & Health

In this research project, the contribution of residential solid fuel burning to ambient levels of wintertime PM2.5 was determined in the towns of Killarney, Enniscorthy and Birr. The results show that the burning of peat, coal and wood for home heating is by far the largest source of PM2.5 air...

www.epa.ie

Optical properties and simple forcing efficiency of the organic aerosols and black carbon emitted by residential wood burning in rural central Europe

Abstract. Recent years have seen an increase in the use of wood for energy production of over 30 %, and this trend is expected to continue due to the current energy crisis and geopolitical instability. At present, residential wood burning (RWB) is one of the most important sources of organic...

acp.copernicus.org

That they're not?

Maybe everything would be fine if the flues were filtered to 2.5 microns, but they're not.

I do wonder why some people are taken in by such "garbage" and "studies". Why reinvent the wheel the Austrians sorted out woodstoves 2 decades ago. Did you actually read the Sheffield report of the gross stupidity of what they trying to prove. Lets light the stove with any old sh!t and see how much sh!t you allow into your living room then restoke with the stove door wide open. Now in the real world your fast asleep in your bed at 6am in the morning the automatic timer lights the wood pellet stove, fuel is automatically dispensed throughout the day from the air lock sealed wood pellet hopper which is topped up by a monthly delivery of wood pellets. No air is provided from internal sources to keep the stove going with all air delivered from an external supply. Any flue gas PM 2.5 taken out by the electrostatic filter. Technology which has all been around for the last 2 decades. Simples

 

[merino]

I do wonder why some people are taken in by such "garbage" and "studies". Why reinvent the wheel the Austrians sorted out woodstoves 2 decades ago. Did you actually read the Sheffield report of the gross stupidity of what they trying to prove. Lets light the stove with any old sh!t and see how much sh!t you allow into your living room then restoke with the stove door wide open. Now in the real world your fast asleep in your bed at 6am in the morning the automatic timer lights the wood pellet stove, fuel is automatically dispensed throughout the day from the air lock sealed wood pellet hopper which is topped up by a monthly delivery of wood pellets. No air is provided from internal sources to keep the stove going with all air delivered from an external supply. Any flue gas PM 2.5 taken out by the electrostatic filter. Technology which has all been around for the last 2 decades. Simples

I maintain that the technology as implemented is polluting.
Maybe things are better with your ideal system.

Loading…

www.sciencedirect.com

But I don't think they perform quite how you think they do either.

 

[essex man]

I maintain that the technology as implemented is polluting.
Maybe things are better with your ideal system.

Loading…

www.sciencedirect.com

But I don't think they perform quite how you think they do either.

You seem to be swapping links about two different things...indoor and external pollution.
Wood burners don't cause indoor air quality problems, unless you are a muppet.
Unlikely to cause much problem outdoors in the countryside, used correctly with correct fuel.