Scotland bans wood stoves😱

[Muck Spreader]

Wood burners are seen as green here in France, we had subsidies to put two in the house. Also a lot of subsidised heat pumps are going in as well as wood pellet and log boilers for central heating. The government is currently giving grants on to households that use wood for heating as the cost of wood has risen significantly over the last couple of years.

 

[robs1]

It is only for new builds.

The bit I read says all wood burning boilers and heaters will be banned at some point, iirc it was 2040 or 45, but get the law passed with a date some way in the future so folk don't object too much and when it's in place bring the date forward due to some rubbish excuse.

 

[Henarar]

Trying to stop smoky old fires how very dare they, they're after our freedoms you know

Quite agree

 

[M-J-G]

For those who scoff at the idea of alternative sources of energy out with electricity, relatives of ours who have an all electric house had to cook on a camping stove for 5 days after storm Arwen and they had gas fires to try to heat the house and a borrowed petrol generator to get light and use charge their phones etc.

I know some who didn't have electricity for two weeks and their new house didn't have a fireplace, an energyless house with old people or young children isn't ideal in sub zero conditions, at least a fire allows you to stay warm and cook.

 

[M-J-G]

I'd hate to have a house that just relied on wood for heat and hot water.
I do like my log burner (doesn't do water) but if I built a new house, I don't think I'd bother. Two heat pump/AC units here, wouldn't be without either of them.

Trying to stop smoky old fires how very dare they, they're after our freedoms you know

You mock what allowed civilization to occur.

Laugh if you want but electric banking, travel, communication, heating, shopping, cooking, media aren't exactly opening up new choices.

 

[merino]

We are all aware that they're ferociously polluting right?

 

[Leakey wellies]

Call me cynical, but I think it's the governments way tax what's spent on heating. Only cost to me is time and effort to cut my own timber

 

[kiwi pom]

You mock what allowed civilization to occur.

Laugh if you want but electric banking, travel, communication, heating, shopping, cooking, media aren't exactly opening up new choices.

What are you on about we have way more choices today than we did 100 years ago in ALL the things you mention.

Getting rid of coal fires in new builds should be first as they do so much harm it's common sense. Then wood, then maybe eventually oil and gas (bit early for that as I already mentioned) Ensuring new builds are warm and efficient so they don't need as much heating/cooling is also common sense.
If you live somewhere remote you really should be building in some kind of backup/safety net to supply power if mains supply is cut, again common sense, you don't want to be relying on corporates for power do you, thought you were against that.
Or would you rather sit in the dark round your coal fire.

 

[kiwi pom]

Wood burners are seen as green here in France, we had subsidies to put two in the house. Also a lot of subsidised heat pumps are going in as well as wood pellet and log boilers for central heating. The government is currently giving grants on to households that use wood for heating as the cost of wood has risen significantly over the last couple of years.

Yes wood burners are considered green when compared to coal, timber is a renewable. Still not great though and we probably should be aiming for better.

Same here really you can still get permits for some hot burning wood burners and they make sense in some situations but go into town in winter on a still day and air quality is awful, even in our little town/village it's bad some days often because people try and burn wet wood, or they shut the fires down to avoid burning too much.
We really should be doing better in 2024.

 

[M-J-G]

What are you on about we have way more choices today than we did 100 years ago in ALL the things you mention.

Getting rid of coal fires in new builds should be first as they do so much harm it's common sense. Then wood, then maybe eventually oil and gas (bit early for that as I already mentioned) Ensuring new builds are warm and efficient so they don't need as much heating/cooling is also common sense.
If you live somewhere remote you really should be building in some kind of backup/safety net to supply power if mains supply is cut, again common sense, you don't want to be relying on corporates for power do you, thought you were against that.
Or would you rather sit in the dark round your coal fire.

I dont use a coal fire, but I'd rather sit in a dark room with a fire than in a cold dark room.

My point about choices was that when you become reliant on everything being electric, then you only have no choice.

 

[hoff135]

I don't even know how it's an argument, humans have been using fire to stay warm since the dawn of time. A million years of use until 2024, up pops the little twit Patrick harvie who decides its a big deal.

 

[kiwi pom]

I dont use a coal fire, but I'd rather sit in a dark room with a fire than in a cold dark room.

My point about choices was that you when become reliant on everything being electric, then you only have no choice.

I'm fine with having a fire to keep warm in an emergency but they get used all the time, where do you draw the line.
New builds shouldn't need the same level of heating, coal and wood are polluters, not so bad in the countryside but towns and villages on a cold day all with a fire going makes the air horrible.

If I was building new in the countryside you can be certain I would be trying hard to be self-sufficient in power anyway so as not to rely on a power company, even if it involved a generator, common sense again.

We should concentrate on providing cheap reliable power to everyone.

 

[M-J-G]

I'm fine with having a fire to keep warm in an emergency but they get used all the time, where do you draw the line.
New builds shouldn't need the same level of heating, coal and wood are polluters, not so bad in the countryside but towns and villages on a cold day all with a fire going makes the air horrible.

If I was building new in the countryside you can be certain I would be trying hard to be self-sufficient in power anyway so as not to rely on a power company, even if it involved a generator, common sense again.

We should concentrate on providing cheap reliable power to everyone.

Power won't be cheap, regardless of how cheaply it can be produced, particularly if everyone has no alternatives.

 

[kiwi pom]

Power won't be cheap, regardless of how cheaply it can be produced, particularly if everyone has no alternatives.

All the more reason to go somewhat off grid particularly if your rural and have the space and buildings.
Could even run an EV off it so you don't have to depend on the oil companies.
Could run your house off it for a couple of days in the event of a power cut.

It's 2024 time to come out of the dark ages.

 

[yoki]

All the more reason to go somewhat off grid particularly if your rural and have the space and buildings.
Could even run an EV off it so you don't have to depend on the oil companies.
Could run your house off it for a couple of days in the event of a power cut.

It's 2024 time to come out of the dark ages.

Nothing demonstrates the arrogance of humanity more than the idea that everything new that we do always improves things.

No harm in at least considering the possibility that a step backwards may sometimes have merit.

 

[M-J-G]

All the more reason to go somewhat off grid particularly if your rural and have the space and buildings.
Could even run an EV off it so you don't have to depend on the oil companies.
Could run your house off it for a couple of days in the event of a power cut.

It's 2024 time to come out of the dark ages.

Come out of the dark ages, with an EV that runs the house for two whole days.
I'd prefer a winter's worth of logs I think.

I still don't think having one choice of power source is ideal, particularly when communications, finances, travel, heating, cooking etc. can be eliminated quite literally with the flick of a switch.
It limits independence

 

[kiwi pom]

Nothing demonstrates the arrogance of humanity more than the idea that everything new that we do always improves things.

No harm in at least considering the possibility that a step backwards may sometimes have merit.

I'm not saying everything new improves things, I'm saying burning coal pollutes burning wood isn't great either and we should attempt to do better.
Unfortunately it seems to be an idea that's championed by the political left, so their ideas are resisted at all costs by those who think themselves more on the right. They seem to be using increasingly silly arguments to continue the fight.

 

[kiwi pom]

Come out of the dark ages, with an EV that runs the house for two whole days.
I'd prefer a winter's worth of logs I think.

I still don't think having one choice of power source is ideal, particularly when communications, finances, travel, heating, cooking etc. can be eliminated quite literally with the flick of a switch.
It limits independence

Again a wood burner makes sense as an emergency for a very rural minority but not for regular use in towns and cities. As a result, some people are trying to do something to cut pollution, others make ridiculous arguments just to oppose them.
How do you reduce pollution and ensure they are only used in an emergency?

If you follow your argument through and come to the conclusion that relying on corporates for energy and heat is bad (I agree) you get to a place where being off grid and not relying on them particularly in a remote region makes sense and is preferred.
You could just cut down all the trees and use a stove and candles or you could build a well-insulated modern home that doesn't require as much heating/cooling and invest in your own energy generation.
Using an EV to power your home in an emergency is just one example, it's just a big battery. You could also use solar and wind with battery storage as well (and run your car without petrol/diesel) and would be way more independent, with a generator as a last resort.

To do this though you have to admit the political left 'greenies' have some good ideas, and therein lies the problem.
Everyone wants to be right; no one wants to get it right.

 

[robs1]

Again a wood burner makes sense as an emergency for a very rural minority but not for regular use in towns and cities. As a result, some people are trying to do something to cut pollution, others make ridiculous arguments just to oppose them.
How do you reduce pollution and ensure they are only used in an emergency?

If you follow your argument through and come to the conclusion that relying on corporates for energy and heat is bad (I agree) you get to a place where being off grid and not relying on them particularly in a remote region makes sense and is preferred.
You could just cut down all the trees and use a stove and candles or you could build a well-insulated modern home that doesn't require as much heating/cooling and invest in your own energy generation.
Using an EV to power your home in an emergency is just one example, it's just a big battery. You could also use solar and wind with battery storage as well (and run your car without petrol/diesel) and would be way more independent, with a generator as a last resort.

To do this though you have to admit the political left 'greenies' have some good ideas, and therein lies the problem.
Everyone wants to be right; no one wants to get it right.

Having all these back ups is sensible but what is the environmental impact of producing them, the greenest product is the one we all ready own in most cases. Burning wood only releases co2 that it took in fairly recently and if a new tree is planted that co2 is taken back up, and while electric can be green I'm not sure all the co2 from infrastructure etc is taken into account

 

[M-J-G]

Having all these back ups is sensible but what is the environmental impact of producing them, the greenest product is the one we all ready own in most cases. Burning wood only releases co2 that it took in fairly recently and if a new tree is planted that co2 is taken back up, and while electric can be green I'm not sure all the co2 from infrastructure etc is taken into account

Of course it isn't.
Pretty much all green power generation is engineered using some of the least green energy on the planet.