Share Farming. Can it work?

[glasshouse]

Of course...all parties have to be profitable

No they dont
The landowner will expect his “rent” regardless of profit

 

[Huno]

No they dont
The landowner will expect his “rent” regardless of profit

Correct... If the landowner doesn't feel rich compared to his mate... you are in the doghouse!!

 

[Tim W]

No they dont
The landowner will expect his “rent” regardless of profit

My experience is that a well structured system leaves the landowners with a decent income whilst allowing the same for the other party
Both parties just have to be open & able to think outside the box

 

[glasshouse]

My experience is that a well structured system leaves the landowners with a decent income whilst allowing the same for the other party
Both parties just have to be open & able to think outside the box

I was in a “ partnership” for twenty years.
The landowner “partner” and their agents (eleven different agents) were nothing more than liars .
Everything was written down at the start.
I kept my part, they didnt .

 

[Bury the Trash]

Both parties just have to be open & able to think outside the box

and how often is that found ? pretty rare ime.

 

[Tim W]

and how often is that found ? pretty rare ime.

Don't know but the 2 agreements I am involved with are working well
The two historic agreements I was involved with also worked well & ended amicably

 

[chipchap]

I was in a “ partnership” for twenty years.
The landowner “partner” and their agents (eleven different agents) were nothing more than liars .
Everything was written down at the start.
I kept my part, they didnt .

In that case you started off with the wrong people at the outset.

For me, the fact that the landowner had so many agents would have set alarm bells ringing.

It is a shame that the reputation of what can be a very successful arrangement in some circumstances is blighted by the negative experience of others.

Where the will to fairly succeed exists from both sides, success will ensue.

 

[glasshouse]

In that case you started off with the wrong people at the outset.

For me, the fact that the landowner had so many agents would have set alarm bells ringing.

It is a shame that the reputation of what can be a very successful arrangement in some circumstances is blighted by the negative experience of others.

Where the will to fairly succeed exists from both sides, success will ensue.

Eh, They didnt have eleven agents to start with. There were eleven over the twenty years and a change of companies too.
Each one more useless than the last.

Where one side holds all the power, there can be no true partnership

 

[chipchap]

Eh, They didnt have eleven agents to start with. There were eleven over the twenty years and a change of companies too.
Each one more useless than the last.

Where one side holds all the power, there can be no true partnership

If you perceive the “other side” as having all the power, then you as good as gave it to them.

You always had the power to walk away, which you chose not to do for twenty years.

 

[glasshouse]

If you perceive the “other side” as having all the power, then you as good as gave it to them.

You always had the power to walk away, which you chose not to do for twenty years.

Your post is too ignorant to warrant a reply.

 

[soapsud]

My experience is that a well structured system leaves the landowners with a decent income whilst allowing the same for the other party
Both parties just have to be open & able to think outside the box

You have advantages that most us don't. You can sell! You are well known even over here in Dorset for talking a good talk. I have a stutter and am useless in company. I'm also now mostly deaf too so have to lip read in crowds as the ear pieces can't filter out background noise!

What little grazing we get we get because of my wife who is also a good talker. I do most of the hand work, she does the leg work.

(Apparently the old saxon word 'ganger', which bosses in building sites are still called now, comes from getting out and about, meeting people and doing deals. Ganger literally means walker.)

 

[Tim W]

You have advantages that most us don't. You can sell! You are well known even over here in Dorset for talking a good talk. I have a stutter and am useless in company. I'm also now mostly deaf too so have to lip read in crowds as the ear pieces can't filter out background noise!

What little grazing we get we get because of my wife who is also a good talker. I do most of the hand work, she does the leg work.

(Apparently the old saxon word 'ganger', which bosses in building sites are still called now, comes from getting out and about, meeting people and doing deals. Ganger literally means walker.)

That's where a ''broker'' comes in i think?
Landowners are often crap at communicating too , they employ agents to do this

At the moment i'm working on the makings of another share-farming deal---with my involvement being minimal but the idea is to give a youngster/new entrants a start on the farming ladder
This needs ;

• land (so i talk to land agents as they have the ear of landowners)
• cash/stock---the incomer needs some of this but landowners are willing to put some in initially as it gives them some control until they get to know the new farmer (there are other funding options too)
• a suitable newcomer , with realistic ambitions

To make all this work and to give confidence to all involved we have to show ''doable'' business plans /cashflow etc and to be backed up by professional help (vets, advisors etc) --the newcoming farmer may be perfectly capable of operating without this backup but it needs to be there to give confidence to the landowner etc
And there is funding for vet advise etc so why not use it?

PS: I've now moved to Dorset!

 

[yellow belly]

Unfortunately capital taxation is a huge consideration for landed estates, and planning for the long term is an absolute necessity to preserve value. It is unfortunate that the regime can change in the future with unknown consequences.
However it is no good going to a man who has nought seeking a contribution.

This May not aply to all estates many are trusts which have different tax rules

 

[renewablejohn]

I have done many share farming agreements and I would recommend it as a very good solution but the parties must have a will to make it. To give examples. I have share farming agreements with tree surgeons and farmers which works as it creates benefits for all parties. The farmer has the large tree that needs felling and carting away, the tree surgeon has the tools to cut the tree down and I have the large kit to lift and transport away. I am happy as I get the tree FOC apart from my time and running cost of equipment. The tree surgeon is happy as it allows the price quoted to be lower than other tree surgeons would quote as the tree only needs to be felled into manageable sized pieces as I remove it all FOC from site. The farmer is happy as he pays the tree surgeon a lower price.
My other attempt of share farming was Land Share with 15 keen veg growers wanting to take the next step into horticulture with a bigger plot 4 times the size of a standard allotment with an additional polytunnel space of 40 m2. It ended in disaster as the keen growers soon realised horticulture on a larger scale was not as easy as they imagined. I am not sorry I tried to help these people but clearing up the mess they left is a thankless task.

 

[Impavidus]

Although I am not a farmer and reside in London, where land availability is scarce, I was able to discover a platform through extensive research and countless hours of internet usage. This platform led to fruitful interactions and eventually led us to a landshare scheme. We traveled from London to this ideal location, which boasted amenities such as water access and electricity, fulfilling all our requirements for our enterprise. A strong relationship was built over time.

It is essential to emphasize the significance of relationships in any endeavor. Eventually, the landowner and I progressed to a shared farmers agreement, which, upon careful examination, met the basic requirements outlined in the document. However, I strongly advise both the landowner and the share farming party to engage in open discussions to determine a mutually beneficial arrangement. Failure to do so may result in accusations of wrongdoing and leave one without any recourse. Therefore, a shared farmers agreement, coupled with the support of a competent legal team, is the recommended way forward. We are still not able to find anything as of yet in comparison to our initial find.

 

[Impavidus]

We are looking to expand our current enterprise, which we are farming around 280 ewes on rented/short term grazing lets. we have been trying top find more ground but its very hard to find and when you can find it, the ground is either too far away or too expensive and we seem to be hitting a brick wall.

We had a local estate get back to us saying they have a tenancy farm coming to an end, with thew tenant going to retire they are looking for what to do next with the farm. They have told us they don't want to re let it under a tenancy as they haven't been happy with how it has been run for many years (neglect etc then the estate foots the bill) and re letting under a tenancy doesn't suit them for tax purposes and they want to be seen as active farmers but don't want to be actively involved. It hasn't been discussed yet but I think we would bring and put on all stock and machinery and labour/running of the farming business, the estate would provide the land, farm yard ,steading and a house for us to stay in. Ground is in need of some tlc, the steading is in not bad order. Fencing would need doing in places too.

How would it work with subsidies? Would the split of profit just be similar to that of a rent? How would we get some security for ourselves going forward?Is there a model of share farming/contract farming that you think would suit this situation best?

 

[Impavidus]

I have done many share farming agreements and I would recommend it as a very good solution but the parties must have a will to make it. To give examples. I have share farming agreements with tree surgeons and farmers which works as it creates benefits for all parties. The farmer has the large tree that needs felling and carting away, the tree surgeon has the tools to cut the tree down and I have the large kit to lift and transport away. I am happy as I get the tree FOC apart from my time and running cost of equipment. The tree surgeon is happy as it allows the price quoted to be lower than other tree surgeons would quote as the tree only needs to be felled into manageable sized pieces as I remove it all FOC from site. The farmer is happy as he pays the tree surgeon a lower price.
My other attempt of share farming was Land Share with 15 keen veg growers wanting to take the next step into horticulture with a bigger plot 4 times the size of a standard allotment with an additional polytunnel space of 40 m2. It ended in disaster as the keen growers soon realised horticulture on a larger scale was not as easy as they imagined. I am not sorry I tried to help these people but clearing up the mess they left is a thankless task.

Are you willing to take on any more S. F. A sir?

 

[ollie989898]

No they dont
The landowner will expect his “rent” regardless of profit

If the landowner wants rent then he can rent it all our lock and stock (likely get more money/acre for it, too) and then face the hit in IHT.

But the reality is that the party doing the farming should only enter into the agreement if he can see benefit for himself- i.e. he needs land but has machinery, stock and labour to go with it. The landowner will get a heap of invoices and a payment of sorts in return, but it won't be the same as some of the exorbitant rents talked about on this forum, figures which -as we know- leads to people paying through the nose and then abusing the place in the meantime. That's not the scenario we're discussing here.

 

[Formatted]

Therefore, a shared farmers agreement, coupled with the support of a competent legal team, is the recommended way forward. We are still not able to find anything as of yet in comparison to our initial find.

Why does this post read like it was written by ChatGPT?

 

[ollie989898]

Why does this post read like it was written by ChatGPT?

I agree. It does. And the rest of their posts.