New Build Tine based Rear End for Front Tank Drill

[Alistair Nelson]

As we all know "All plans are subject to review and change!" So having got the frame all drawn out and the 30 off 19mm Bourgault coulters provisionally ordered. We spoke to stuart at BTT and also looked at what it was going to weigh and how deep the 4 row frame was going to be. Whilst it would have done everything we wanted it was quite a heavy brute and deep front to back. So we've had a redesign and now are working on 19 tines instead of 30, but now fitted with the 4' Bourgault paired row VOS coulters rather than the 19mm single shot coulters. Which will save a load of weight also this will allow us to reduce the frame down to 3 rows so reducing the depth of frame and more weight. We can still run at 10 rows for rape, then back to 19 for cereals. What we are ending up with is a poor mans old spec 3 row mounted sprinter with 19 leading discs or 10 tines (for the rape), with a rear guttler roller.

The trouble is then when you start thinking you don't know where to stop so somebody suggested working out of you could make it do 5.14m (36m) as well as 4.8m (24m) which with a bit of juggling and 2 more tines (21) works quite easily so we're now doing that now as well to basically future proof ourselves or allow for some contracting opportunities and stuart sold 2 more coulters!

So w're getting there but my brain is about fried and Matt who is helping with the frame design computer is steaming!!

 

[clbarclay]

I know that feeling. Several times I've thought of starting completely afresh, building a tine drill on CAD first rather than starting with a cultivator. Settling on a design is a headache.

I can't even settle on a tine to use.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

We’re working on a combination solidworks 3D Cad (Matt / Dean), squared paper (Me!).

I work out row spacing, basic layout etc on paper, then Matt / Dean translate that into a frame design etc that you can the work out the weight even do finite element analysis on the frame to show weak points. This works well I find as your sort of working from the result you want to achieve backwards rather than from a blank screen right let’s design a drill!

Also lucky to have some serious sounding blocks in the background whose brains I’ve picked whilst formulating the idea. This helps no end as it gives you the confidence that your idea isn’t bonkers or when they say are you sure that’s a good idea you need to think abit harder doesn’t mean your wrong just a good make sure!

 

[clbarclay]

Probably a better way to do things than having the same brain constantly thinking about base specifications while trying to do the detailed cad.

 

[alomy75]

As we all know "All plans are subject to review and change!" So having got the frame all drawn out and the 30 off 19mm Bourgault coulters provisionally ordered. We spoke to stuart at BTT and also looked at what it was going to weigh and how deep the 4 row frame was going to be. Whilst it would have done everything we wanted it was quite a heavy brute and deep front to back. So we've had a redesign and now are working on 19 tines instead of 30, but now fitted with the 4' Bourgault paired row VOS coulters rather than the 19mm single shot coulters. Which will save a load of weight also this will allow us to reduce the frame down to 3 rows so reducing the depth of frame and more weight. We can still run at 10 rows for rape, then back to 19 for cereals. What we are ending up with is a poor mans old spec 3 row mounted sprinter with 19 leading discs or 10 tines (for the rape), with a rear guttler roller.

The trouble is then when you start thinking you don't know where to stop so somebody suggested working out of you could make it do 5.14m (36m) as well as 4.8m (24m) which with a bit of juggling and 2 more tines (21) works quite easily so we're now doing that now as well to basically future proof ourselves or allow for some contracting opportunities and stuart sold 2 more coulters!

So w're getting there but my brain is about fried and Matt who is helping with the frame design computer is steaming!!

What sort of price is a 3m guttler roller? I’m thinking along similar lines for my drill-another week or so and it will be piped up and I’ll post some photos. Currently it has a standard Simba packer and scraper…

 

[Alistair Nelson]

What sort of price is a 3m guttler roller? I’m thinking along similar lines for my drill-another week or so and it will be piped up and I’ll post some photos. Currently it has a standard Simba packer and scraper…

mk 1 version of triggers broom drill in 2006 the 450mm plastic rollers were circa £1000/m.

For this one as the originals are very worn I managed to pick 2 3m relatively unused units at a farm sale this spring for £1100 a piece. Some days you get lucky. I suspect they are around 1600 - 1750 / m now

 

[alomy75]

mk 1 version of triggers broom drill in 2006 the 450mm plastic rollers were circa £1000/m.

For this one as the originals are very worn I managed to pick 2 3m relatively unused units at a farm sale this spring for £1100 a piece. Some days you get lucky. I suspect they are around 1600 - 1750 / m now

Ah was it that sale in north lincs right next to the coast? What are your feelings about the guttler-do they block into one solid lump when it’s really wet? Or keep turning and doing a job?

 

[clbarclay]

Gutters rollers can block up very solid in the right (wrong) conditions. Soil types probably have a notable effect on that. They will keep going long after packer rollers give up, but when they do reach their limit then they are a serious pain to dig out.

 

[Wombat]

Ah was it that sale in north lincs right next to the coast? What are your feelings about the guttler-do they block into one solid lump when it’s really wet? Or keep turning and doing a job?

I have found them no really different to any other packer on our soils. Block solid if you drag a tine through in front and it’s not a drying day

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Gutters rollers can block up very solid in the right (wrong) conditions. Soil types probably have a notable effect on that. They will keep going long after packer rollers give up, but when they do reach their limit then they are a serious pain to dig out.

I got quoted for a 3m on the powerharrow a couple years ago the price was eye watering, are they actually worth the price over a standard packer?

 

[Alistair Nelson]

Ah was it that sale in north lincs right next to the coast? What are your feelings about the guttler-do they block into one solid lump when it’s really wet? Or keep turning and doing a job?

Yes those were the ones. They run as long as the tractor can travel and longer than any other packer of that type I can find but they come at a price hence my searching through sales etc. I also have a thing about frame etc not being too heavy so I can run as light as possible to push the window as far as I can, this also helps keep the roller turning.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

I got quoted for a 3m on the powerharrow a couple years ago the price was eye watering, are they actually worth the price over a standard packer?

The dealer over in Shropshire who introduced me to them stocks them and when people are having packer problems in a year like this or bulldozing on blowing sand and ask him for the solution he shows them one and gives them a price, he said they promptly fall over call him every name under the sun and legit. 3 days later they’re back with a go on then as long as it’s as good as you say it is. By the following week they’re his best friend and everything is forgotten about except how good that roller was he’d sold them. But as he said it only worked because he had them there and then in stock.

 

[alomy75]

Yes those were the ones. They run as long as the tractor can travel and longer than any other packer of that type I can find but they come at a price hence my searching through sales etc. I also have a thing about frame etc not being too heavy so I can run as light as possible to push the window as far as I can, this also helps keep the roller turning.

Were they plastic ones? Are plastic as good as/better than steel?

 

[Spud]

The dealer over in Shropshire who introduced me to them stocks them and when people are having packer problems in a year like this or bulldozing on blowing sand and ask him for the solution he shows them one and gives them a price, he said they promptly fall over call him every name under the sun and legit. 3 days later they’re back with a go on then as long as it’s as good as you say it is. By the following week they’re his best friend and everything is forgotten about except how good that roller was he’d sold them. But as he said it only worked because he had them there and then in stock.

We demo'd a front mounted guttler some years back. Mr Wox was most put out that we didn't buy it, but I just couldn't make anything of it at all. No steering (he said it wasn't necessary) and I had to carry it on anything but the stiffest of going. On the soft stuff (the most in need of pressing) iyt just buried itself and I had to carry it.
More recently (could still be 10yrs ago!) we acted as a test site for someone making tine bars to go in front of power harrow combi's. He had a Guttler on his rig. I wouldn't of wanted it to be much wetter. I'll see if I have a pic

The Guttler tended to run at least half full of soil continually. it wouldn't take much blocking on soft fluffy going

 

[Alistair Nelson]

Were they plastic ones? Are plastic as good as/better than steel?

Yes plastic yes better in that the soil doesn’t stick to them as much as the steel and they are lighter but they wear more and are more expensive.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

We demo'd a front mounted guttler some years back. Mr Wox was most put out that we didn't buy it, but I just couldn't make anything of it at all. No steering (he said it wasn't necessary) and I had to carry it on anything but the stiffest of going. On the soft stuff (the most in need of pressing) iyt just buried itself and I had to carry it.
More recently (could still be 10yrs ago!) we acted as a test site for someone making tine bars to go in front of power harrow combi's. He had a Guttler on his rig. I wouldn't have wanted it to be much wetter. I'll see if I have a pic

I’m with you on the front presses as they don’t have the understanding of the design of front presses that the uk manufacturers have.

I did a conversion for a man of a farm force front 600mm coil which he bought s/h from a sand land farm where they were awesome thinking it would work on his heavy land where it was totally useless. onto a 540mm single guttler as he liked the idea of the square shaft for total drive as opposed to 700mm cast rings on a shaft. It cost a fortune but worked really well and to be fair made me more of a believer which I am as you can see. Top and bottom is the rollers are great but expensive but you have to understand how to mount / package them which it’s not geoffs fault the Germans aren’t great at when you look at the trailed ones.

what you find on a p/h is you go way longer than you should and then wonder why it looks a mess which actually isn’t the rollers fault

 

[alomy75]

Apologies for wading in with my pics on this thread but I thought it may be of interest to others planning a similar conversion! Simba toptilth meets metcalfe legs and 50mm winged tips. Just waiting for some parts for the following Harrow which will be a Horsch/vaderstad marriage in front of the packer (it’s going to be tight)

 

[BuskhillFarm]

I seed bramley of teh bramley toolbars crowd are advertising a customisable frame they’re in production of at the minute

 

[Wigeon]

As we all know "All plans are subject to review and change!" So having got the frame all drawn out and the 30 off 19mm Bourgault coulters provisionally ordered. We spoke to stuart at BTT and also looked at what it was going to weigh and how deep the 4 row frame was going to be. Whilst it would have done everything we wanted it was quite a heavy brute and deep front to back. So we've had a redesign and now are working on 19 tines instead of 30, but now fitted with the 4' Bourgault paired row VOS coulters rather than the 19mm single shot coulters. Which will save a load of weight also this will allow us to reduce the frame down to 3 rows so reducing the depth of frame and more weight. We can still run at 10 rows for rape, then back to 19 for cereals. What we are ending up with is a poor mans old spec 3 row mounted sprinter with 19 leading discs or 10 tines (for the rape), with a rear guttler roller.

The trouble is then when you start thinking you don't know where to stop so somebody suggested working out of you could make it do 5.14m (36m) as well as 4.8m (24m) which with a bit of juggling and 2 more tines (21) works quite easily so we're now doing that now as well to basically future proof ourselves or allow for some contracting opportunities and stuart sold 2 more coulters!

So w're getting there but my brain is about fried and Matt who is helping with the frame design computer is steaming!!

I put 4inch paired row bourgault on my horsch co this year, and have been really impressed with them so far. Early days but gut feel is yes more disturbance than a metcalf, but likely better wheats.

 

[alomy75]

Got the following harrow fitted today. Tight as I had feared but hopefully will be functional. May have to get locked out of the way if it’s really trashy…