Defra now looking at capping SFI

[Humble Village Farmer]

I think that’s the reality of it for many. I’m happy to accept the government funding, but without it serious and nationally beneficial decisions would have to made that would lead to a more globally competitive industry.
It’s an aside really. But it’s a view I take if look at the situation entirely detached and dispassionately.
For some reason my keyboard froze up.

But subsidies are going. SFI is not a subsidy on production, Merchants and other buyers will have to start paying prices that give a return to the farmer if they want us to carry on producing.

 

[Hindsight]

But subsidies are going. SFI is not a subsidy on production, Merchants and other buyers will have to start paying prices that give a return to the farmer if they want us to carry on producing.

Hi HVF. Follow your sentiment but like all agricultural subsidy depends how the cash is utilised within the farming business, as was BPS. So IPM4 at £45 hectare is in effect ‘free’ cash if you did not use insecticide before SFI and continue same after. Same with SAM2. The situation you allude to is where land has been removed from production because of an SFI action, which of course has led to the high profile cases and as we saw our host destroying what looked a decent crop of rape to sow AHL. So it is not straightforward and yes i am being pedantic. Cheers

 

[glasshouse]

But subsidies are going. SFI is not a subsidy on production, Merchants and other buyers will have to start paying prices that give a return to the farmer if they want us to carry on producing.

Bps wasnt a production subsidy, neither was sfp
Nothing has changed

 

[Hindsight]

But subsidies are going. SFI is not a subsidy on production, Merchants and other buyers will have to start paying prices that give a return to the farmer if they want us to carry on producing.

I do though find it intriguing that farmers are being paid to do something which they have in their own business been doing for years and indicate no intention of changing to the opposite. I mean here IPM4, SAM2, IPM3. While those farmers welcome the payment and probably consider it a reward for 'doing the right thing' from the perspective of public purse I would contend this is poor allocation of scarce cash. Anyway will be interesting to follow survey work in future years as Defra analyses the performance of SFI. Cheers

 

[Henarar]

But subsidies are going. SFI is not a subsidy on production, Merchants and other buyers will have to start paying prices that give a return to the farmer if they want us to carry on producing.

Bps wasnt a production subsidy, neither was sfp
Nothing has changed

Yep, went to a meeting before they brought in the single farm payment and the first thing they told us was that we wouldn't have to do any farming to get the single farm payment and they were quite right you didn't.
It wasn't a farming subsidy it was a payment for keeping the land in GAEC as per the cross compliance, if you chose to farm it was up to you.

 

[glasshouse]

Yep, went to a meeting before they brought in the single farm payment and the first thing they told us was that we wouldn't have to do any farming to get the single farm payment and they were quite right you didn't.
It wasn't a farming subsidy it was a payment for keeping the land in GAEC as per the cross compliance, if you chose to farm it was up to you.

And that was the end of many farm tenants

 

[Henarar]

And that was the end of many farm tenants

and unlimited SFI would end some more

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

There's a difference between SFI and BPS which was flat rate because you have a choice of options, all of which pay different rates.

You could do nothing and still claim BPS. The SFI do nothing options pay less well than some of the more complicated ones.

 

[DrWazzock]

The thing that’s somewhat galling as an independent careful small farmer who has been careful with expenditure and has invested profits back into the business, is that all the Billy big balls who have over stretched themselves, outbid all comers for land, rents and machinery are yet again bailed out by the taxpayer.
So where’s the incentive for any of us to run a disciplined, properly costed efficient enterprise or shock horror get out of the industry and do something else leading to the rationalisation that’s long overdue.
You can even claim a stewardship grant for a wooden gate to prettify your weekend retreat. It’s a joke really. Business efficiency is now seen as who can max out on the subs available. Anybody who tries to pay their own way isn’t rewarded but looks like an idiot and will never compete with State funded claimants. True business competitiveness is dead in U.K. agriculture, poisoned by the £3.5bn slush fund that they “have to spend” and which in reality only inflates our costs, rents, land prices, input and machinery prices etc to keep us wholly uncompetitive with imports.
There are just no real Conservatives left any more. Just populists who now resort to Soviet style command and control to sustain the highly over inflated western asset base.

 

[fudge]

More people have always left the farming industry than have joined it. We all know the way to make a small fortune in agriculture is to start with a large fortune! This is why ag subsidies are a waste of money. In effect they are a delaying tactic and that’s all. I very much agree with those on this forum who say bps/sfi is just a transfer from taxpayers to landowners. The EU justified this by having, rightly or wrongly, an EU food for EU people policy whereas our government cannot make its mind up whether it really wants to export production or not! Confused? You will be.

 

[teslacoils]

I think folk forget that agricultural wages have lagged all others for around 400 years now, and folk have been moving to towns for centuries. There isn't going to be a sudden leap back to the country; house values will keep climbing; rural jobs will keep declining. Noone will ever make an acre pay on day 1 by growing wheat. The next ag shift will be when the third gen aha tenants finally die, then you'll see some farms change hands / yards turn to houses etc. UK countryside is a townie playground; retiree care home; and dead end for a few who can't leave.

Stop glossing it as a great place to be.

I intend to reydin the farm as a nice "base" for the children. But it's not the place to make a living, unless you enjoy watching your friends get progressively richer and have better lives. Fair doos, you say, you enjoy living in a damp house with drawings under what youd get on the dole. There's no point being a martyr. Follow the money; shove it in SFi; go earn elsewhere in a warm building. There are colleges crying out for folk to go teach welding, mechanicing etc. Or get on a plane and drive a combine in the States for a year or two.

 

[glasshouse]

I think folk forget that agricultural wages have lagged all others for around 400 years now, and folk have been moving to towns for centuries. There isn't going to be a sudden leap back to the country; house values will keep climbing; rural jobs will keep declining. Noone will ever make an acre pay on day 1 by growing wheat. The next ag shift will be when the third gen aha tenants finally die, then you'll see some farms change hands / yards turn to houses etc. UK countryside is a townie playground; retiree care home; and dead end for a few who can't leave.

Stop glossing it as a great place to be.

I intend to reydin the farm as a nice "base" for the children. But it's not the place to make a living, unless you enjoy watching your friends get progressively richer and have better lives. Fair doos, you say, you enjoy living in a damp house with drawings under what youd get on the dole. There's no point being a martyr. Follow the money; shove it in SFi; go earn elsewhere in a warm building. There are colleges crying out for folk to go teach welding, mechanicing etc. Or get on a plane and drive a combine in the States for a year or two.

I dont agree.
Farms need to get smaller
Sfp and bps has driven farming and contract farming beyond optimal economic size
Hopefully labour party will rein it in.
More mixed farming and more people willbe the result.

 

[teslacoils]

I dont agree.
Farms need to get smaller
Sfp and bps has driven farming and contract farming beyond optimal economic size
Hopefully labour party will rein it in.
More mixed farming and more people willbe the result.

Thats fine. I have no issue with the size of farms. But its unlikely that smaller farms growing combinables are going to be economic or earn enough for a living wage and return on capital.

 

[glasshouse]

Thats fine. I have no issue with the size of farms. But its unlikely that smaller farms growing combinables are going to be economic or earn enough for a living wage and return on capital.

If u read my post i said mixed farms

 

[Huno]

Thats fine. I have no issue with the size of farms. But its unlikely that smaller farms growing combinables are going to be economic or earn enough for a living wage and return on capital.

So where is the buyer support and encouragement for small farmers to grow high value crops for human consumption grown by local humans for local diets? Answer not in the UK by a long shot!!

 

[teslacoils]

So where is the buyer support and encouragement for small farmers to grow high value crops for human consumption grown by local humans for local diets? Answer not in the UK by a long shot!!

I agree. Even in my local farm shop folk arent paying a premium for eggs, and a fair bit of the goods are not produced "on farm". Most seem to be excuses to sell afternoon tea to old dears.

But we are not going back to great leaps of ag productivity. More likely the opposite way - to the Danish model of sub-optimal nitrogen and count-them-on-one-hand fungicides.

 

[Huno]

I agree. Even in my local farm shop folk arent paying a premium for eggs, and a fair bit of the goods are not produced "on farm". Most seem to be excuses to sell afternoon tea to old dears.

But we are not going back to great leaps of ag productivity. More likely the opposite way - to the Danish model of sub-optimal nitrogen and count-them-on-one-hand fungicides.

Yes agreed.. We are going back to the 1930's for now... If you spend nothing and owe nothing then this look quite exciting.. So long as you earn you living off farm? Having screamed blue murder at DEFRA regarding SFI and BPS i now work off farm most of the time and dont care so much what stupid plans they come up with next..except i will call them on all their stupidity!!

 

[teslacoils]

If u read my post i said mixed farms

I doubt the Labour-utopia will in any way encourage a return to smaller mixed farms. Unless you mean hobby farming.

 

[Huno]

I doubt the Labour-utopia will in any way encourage a return to smaller mixed farms. Unless you mean hobby farming.

New Labour with be old Conservatives in land management parlance... Neither care about our sector...Lib Dems would have surged an extra billion but they wont be in power.. ce la vie...

 

[teslacoils]

Yes agreed.. We are going back to the 1930's for now... If you spend nothing and owe nothing then this look quite exciting.. So long as you earn you living off farm?

Im quite excited about farming in the next 5 years. But what I do at the end of that is going to be radically different from what I am doing now. Without a return to some kind of corn laws, or a public commitment (be that State subsidy or public paying) to accepting that we cannot produce commodity crops as cheap as we can import, then the future lies in off farm work for me.

There are lots of opportunities in leisure, tourism, carbon gubbins, BNG, and all that kind of thing. The outside employment sector is pretty buoyant also, and a lot of opportunities for flexible or home work.