What size plough?

[DrWazzock]

A question for the experts.
What does the number mean in the dowdeswell type for example MA100?
100 hp rated headstock and frame?
I was used to thinking that DP8 was kind of 100 hp max and DP7 was 100 hp plus.
We used to pull a DP7 4 furrow semi digger with a 105 hp Lambo. It just managed but stretched the bolts in the levelling box and used to rear up going up hill at times.
Which D mouldboarded Dowdeswell would suit a 135hp Renault Temis on 20” tyres?

 

[Flat 10]

A question for the experts.
What does the number mean in the dowdeswell type for example MA100?
100 hp rated headstock and frame?
I was used to thinking that DP8 was kind of 100 hp max and DP7 was 100 hp plus.
We used to pull a DP7 4 furrow semi digger with a 105 hp Lambo. It just managed but stretched the bolts in the levelling box and used to rear up going up hill at times.
Which D mouldboarded Dowdeswell would suit a 135hp Renault Temis on 20” tyres?

I think a 120 (dp7 replacement) would be too much for a 135. They are heavy. I run one on 160hp Deere and it’s enough. DD boards are very heavy. @Nearly might know more than me but I reckon a 100 might do 135hp.

 

[Nearly]

I've a collection of MA100's here. I run them on NH 8340's on 520 or 600 tyres.
UCN's cope but DD boards are the modern choice.

 

[David.]

I live to be proven wrong, but I think I remember the number relating to the box section main beam dimensions. Perhaps I'm thinking Rabe.
Although 100mm sounds a bit feeble.

 

[bravheart]

I live to be proven wrong, but I think I remember the number relating to the box section main beam dimensions. Perhaps I'm thinking Rabe.
Although 100mm sounds a bit feeble.

Lemken were numbered according to beam size, no idea about Dowdeswell except dp7 heavier than dp8.

 

[Kidds]

And remember the tyres need to be plenty wide enough to smash down the furrow wall the wheel is running in so as to remove any chance of a nice finish!!!

It wasn't until yesterday that I actually got around to doing any ploughing and yes I found exactly as you said. The tyres won't fit in the furrow and made a bit of a mess of the job tbh.
Running the edge of the tyre full against the furrow wall and the front furrow was doing 6 inches at the very most, half that more likely. So the 4 furrow plough I started off with and reduced down to 3 was in reality only doing closer to two. Was better in the other direction but not enough to be able to adjust it out,
The tractor did fine as far as pulling it goes but I concluded it wasn't a ploughing tractor without a new set of wheels which isn't happening. I guess I bolt the back furrow on again and sell it on. I ploughed an acre and it looks fine, it is all turned over, what little trash there was is buried and looks level enough to me, maybe the roll will highlight any major faults but I doubt it. This tie next week it will be harrowed and drilled down to grass. Might mow it next year but the plan is for it to be my next cider orchard.
Meanwhile, plan b is to get a 2+1 Dowdeswell and put it on my 674 for what bit I do. 674 pulls a 3 furrow conventional well enough so will see how that progresses.

 

[Bury the Trash]

It wasn't until yesterday that I actually got around to doing any ploughing and yes I found exactly as you said. The tyres won't fit in the furrow and made a bit of a mess of the job tbh.
Running the edge of the tyre full against the furrow wall and the front furrow was doing 6 inches at the very most, half that more likely. So the 4 furrow plough I started off with and reduced down to 3 was in reality only doing closer to two. Was better in the other direction but not enough to be able to adjust it out,
The tractor did fine as far as pulling it goes but I concluded it wasn't a ploughing tractor without a new set of wheels which isn't happening. I guess I bolt the back furrow on again and sell it on. I ploughed an acre and it looks fine, it is all turned over, what little trash there was is buried and looks level enough to me, maybe the roll will highlight any major faults but I doubt it. This tie next week it will be harrowed and drilled down to grass. Might mow it next year but the plan is for it to be my next cider orchard.
Meanwhile, plan b is to get a 2+1 Dowdeswell and put it on my 674 for what bit I do. 674 pulls a 3 furrow conventional well enough so will see how that progresses.

its unlikely a wide tyre will do that much damage ,sound to me like the tractor wheel track width/ inside wheel measurements arent right for the plough as it is .

 

[Kidds]

its unlikely a wide tyre will do that much damage ,sound to me like the tractor wheel track width/ inside wheel measurements arent right for the plough as it is .

Set too narrow?
Must admit I hadn't given it much thought but if I widened the track width that could help.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Set too narrow?
Must admit I hadn't given it much thought but if I widened the track width that could help.

ideally you need to know what the particular plough /cross shaft prefers wheel width wise, ,theres usually an optimum or range that it will work best within. and corresponding to furrow width. it is set at also.
If it were pretty mch any dowdeswell plough i colud tell you what it needs to be because i have the manuals for most of them

 

[oil barron]

Set too narrow?
Must admit I hadn't given it much thought but if I widened the track width that could help.

If it’s a rabe it should have a line of draft adjustment turnbuckle as well (adjusts the angle between the beam and the headstock) We changed outs to a hydraulic ram so you could cheat it on a side slope.

 

[Kidds]

It is a Rabe and it does have a turnbuckle. Whether it actually turns is another matter.
I will have another look at things and track widths etc but not likely to do any more ploughing for some time. Thank you both for your input, I always feel that as a farmer I should know this stuff but nobody has ever told me anything about ploughing since I left college decades ago. If I've ever done any ploughing the seat was already warmed for me so to speak, I just got in and drove.

 

[Kidds]

If it were pretty mch any dowdeswell plough i colud tell you what it needs to be because i have the manuals for most of them

Could you please tell me what the ideal track width of my tractor should be when using a DP8A with 14" furrows (UCN boards if that makes a difference)?
Where does the front wheel track come into it? Should they be set so the outside track matches the outside track of the rears, central with the rears or somewhere in between? My rear tyres have a 16" width if that comes into it.

I have decided to give up on the Rabe. It is too big as a 4 furrow and although it pulls nice enough as a 3 furrow the depth wheel can't be placed far enough forwards as the frame increases in size with a reinforcing plate. This means the wheel sticks out too far past the last furrow so you can't plough to the hedge/fence.
I've bought a 2+1 DP8 in nice enough condition so that can go on my 674 easily too if I want it to.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Could you please tell me what the ideal track width of my tractor should be when using a DP8A with 14" furrows (UCN boards if that makes a difference)?
Where does the front wheel track come into it? Should they be set so the outside track matches the outside track of the rears, central with the rears or somewhere in between? My rear tyres have a 16" width if that comes into it.

I have decided to give up on the Rabe. It is too big as a 4 furrow and although it pulls nice enough as a 3 furrow the depth wheel can't be placed far enough forwards as the frame increases in size with a reinforcing plate. This means the wheel sticks out too far past the last furrow so you can't plough to the hedge/fence.
I've bought a 2+1 DP8 in nice enough condition so that can go on my 674 easily too if I want it to.

No body style doesnt matter .

16" inches will be ok but if they are 16.9 /420 1 expect they will 17 or so but still ok really .

DP8 A (shear bolt leg model) inside tyre measurement can be from 44" to 56"
I reckon to have mine at either 48/ 50 /52 .depending in what else the tractors got to do .
start with Rear wheels first.
That's simply measuring from the inside of one tyre to the inside of another and strictly speaking at the bulge at the bottom, with that in mind raising tyre air pressure can widen it a bit if required if you see what i mean .
but its an inside measurement tyre to tyre any way, simply the gap between the 2 wheels on a particular axle at the tyres
best thing to do now is measure that on your tractor as he is now to see what your up against .

Front wheels ,well measure between them in the same way , and see what they are as well then post up the figures so we can see whats what.They ideally need to be the same measurement as the rears or can if practically necessary / exceptably be 2 inches (ish) wider

bit busy atm but i will post back with how to align the plough which is the next step

 

[Donkey Oaty]

The question may have been answered earlier as I have not read all the thread. The tractor looks similar to my McCormick CX105. I tried a 4f reversible on it and it just wasn't fit. Not enough weight about it. I would recommend sticking with 3f. Much better match.

 

[Kidds]

No body style doesnt matter .

16" inches will be ok but if they are 16.9 /420 1 expect they will 17 or so but still ok really .

DP8 A (shear bolt leg model) inside tyre measurement can be from 44" to 56"
I reckon to have mine at either 48/ 50 /52 .depending in what else the tractors got to do .
start with Rear wheels first.
That's simply measuring from the inside of one tyre to the inside of another and strictly speaking at the bulge at the bottom, with that in mind raising tyre air pressure can widen it a bit if required if you see what i mean .
but its an inside measurement tyre to tyre any way, simply the gap between the 2 wheels on a particular axle at the tyres
best thing to do now is measure that on your tractor as he is now to see what your up against .

Front wheels ,well measure between them in the same way , and see what they are as well then post up the figures so we can see whats what.They ideally need to be the same measurement as the rears or can if practically necessary / exceptably be 2 inches (ish) wider

bit busy atm but i will post back with how to align the plough which is the next step

I remembered wrong as far as my tyre widths are concerned, the rears have a footprint of 19" not including any bulge but they don't have a bulge with no implement on the back.
They are 480/70 34 tyres.
The inside measurement between the rear tyres is 41"
The inside for the fronts is 53". They are 380/70 24 with a footprint of 17" including the bulge due to the front weights.

My 674 is set at 42" inside width at the moment on 13.6 x 36 tyres, maybe that is my ploughing tractor.

If you are busy there is absolutely no rush for answers as I am not going ploughing any time soon and appreciate all the help you have already given.

 

[Woody j]

First thing you need to do is set the front wheels to as close to 41 inches as possible or else the rears to 53 which would probably work better

 

[Bury the Trash]

I remembered wrong as far as my tyre widths are concerned, the rears have a footprint of 19" not including any bulge but they don't have a bulge with no implement on the back.
They are 480/70 34 tyres.
The inside measurement between the rear tyres is 41"
The inside for the fronts is 53". They are 380/70 24 with a footprint of 17" including the bulge due to the front weights.

Those tyres are ok for the width that a UCN mouldboard makes.


If your front wheels are 53 apart i would bring them in one wheel setting change ie 2" or 3"whatever one setting of less is ? to about 50 "
and widen the back ones to about 52 " ish

unless of course you need them narrow for another particular job .

Remember to that , like a lot of things, theory doesn't always come good in practice , book figures are only a starting guide really , even if you have them (wheel track widths) in your tractor manual you wont really know how wide they are apart until after you have changed them/ moved them around and applied the tape measure again .

don't forget they will bulge when the plough is on , even when its in the ground.

Changing centres and rims positions is a bit a crap job but maybe the wheels can just be turn around from one side to another if your lucky .
but if centres to rims need moving i always take the wheels off to do it and modern rattle guns make the job much easier.

did 674 's not have 38" standard or 34 optional ?

anyway they wont be up to much reversable plough wise, ok on 12inch conventional 4 furrows though.

4wd is better as well (even if its only used in 2wd ) better weight spread .

 

[Kidds]

Those tyres are ok for the width that a UCN mouldboard makes.


If your front wheels are 53 apart i would bring them in one wheel setting change ie 2" or 3"whatever one setting of less is ? to about 50 "
and widen the back ones to about 52 " ish

unless of course you need them narrow for another particular job .

Remember to that , like a lot of things, theory doesn't always come good in practice , book figures are only a starting guide really , even if you have them (wheel track widths) in your tractor manual you wont really know how wide they are apart until after you have changed them/ moved them around and applied the tape measure again .

don't forget they will bulge when the plough is on , even when its in the ground.

Changing centres and rims positions is a bit a crap job but maybe the wheels can just be turn around from one side to another if your lucky .
but if centres to rims need moving i always take the wheels off to do it and modern rattle guns make the job much easier.

did 674 's not have 38" standard or 34 optional ?

anyway they wont be up to much reversable plough wise, ok on 12inch conventional 4 furrows though.

4wd is better as well (even if its only used in 2wd ) better weight spread .

I'm OK changing the dishes around but will admit taking the rears off tractors does terrify me, especially if swapping side to side and have both rears off at the same time. Some years ago a friend was killed doing just that. Have done it many times but never like doing it. That little movement/jump they do just as the rim clears the studs gets me every time.
Looking at the tractor the rears are set quite narrow, no need for them to be for my operations, it is just how it arrived and how it stayed.
People tell me 674's are 38's as standard but mine came with 36 and it is fine by me.

Thank you for your help, it is very much appreciated.

 

[bravheart]

Well well well its amazing the things you come across when you actually RTFM or part of it at least.
Tractor book says insides of wheels should be 3 times the furrow width to get the virtual hitch point in a straight line.
eg. for 16" furrows the inside wheel measurements should be 48" and front insides 4"-6" wider.

By my reckoning most Ploughs have an adjustment to help pull the centre of the plough back in line with a tractor on wider inside measurements but it's a starting point for you. The width or centre line of the tyres will have no bearing on the plough settings unless the tyre footprint is too wide to fit in the trench left by the last furrow.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I've bought a 2+1 DP8 in nice enough condition so that can go on my 674 easily too if I want it to.

only just read this bit .


I forget stuff sometimes. i still have a 3 furrow ( a reduced 3plus 1 ) DP8A here or what's left of it might get it done up again one day i suppose.

I used to use it on Ford 7610 2wd . Then got a first 4wd tractor ,an Ursus 'small range ' one , was basically an Eastern European built massy 375 replica P 4. 236 replica engine 'an all not a fancy cab but great little gripper and low centre of gravity excellent on steep ground.

Made an excellent ploughing combination go anywhere and through anything with it , even dad used to do some with it in his later years .

16.9 / 14/34 rears on them tractors with 10 x 24 fronts on the Ursus iirc.