SFI 24 no till payment

[Mixedupfarmer]

Defra only has £220 hectare to play with.some of the boys in these threads with AHL2 planted July followed by AHL1 plus a bit of IPM4 and a dash of SAM2 with a smidge of IPM3 will be drawing more than that per hectare. Relying on the man growing parsnips not getting ought. Now that fella expects another £78 hectare. Oh and the variable rate fert payment, so another £29 or so. And you think the budget won't be spent. In meantime upland grass boys only way is destock. Just find it fascinating. Hey ho.

The £220/ha bit is not right though is it? The BPS was only part of the budget, in the past many farms ran HLS/ELS/Mid tier on top of BPS, out of the same pot. These schemes / claims are slowly ending and getting put into ELMS

 

[redsloe]

No idea yet. But I won’t compromise crop performance for abit of extra money. We DD a lot but I cannot get it working consistently in spring.

no I do what grass and grain proposed, cultivate and broadcast a cover crop in the summer, then drill into that in the spring.

It's still early. Do you cultivate in the summer or in the spring? If so is the cultivation last summer enough to relieve the possible compaction during this last winter?
Also,
I've had to short disc twice over the weekend to get one of my fields to dry up enough to Claydon drill Monday. An absolute bog on parts when I perhaps foolishly tried spreading fym on Friday. Cultivation last summer wouldn't help with that.

 

[B'o'B]

Same field of grass, split in half. How many years in DD, rather than ploughing, to compensate for ploughing half of it up ? Rothamsted still a thing ? This stuff must have been done ? It's a cornerstone of ELMS.

How many years has the field been PP?
How many years will it be ploughed up for?
What other tillage will go on?
What soil type? Different soils types will behave differently and give you different answers to the same question.
What will the other management practices be on the PP and DD land?
What crops will be grown?
Straw removed?
Compost/FYM applied?
Weather?
Etc etc etc etc.....

Still too many variables in your simple question.

 

[ajd132]

It's still early. Do you cultivate in the summer or in the spring? If so is the cultivation last summer enough to relieve the possible compaction during this last winter?
Also,
I've had to short disc twice over the weekend to get one of my fields to dry up enough to Claydon drill Monday. An absolute bog on parts when I perhaps foolishly tried spreading fym on Friday. Cultivation last summer wouldn't help with that.

Cultivate in the summer and broadcast a cover then drill straight into that in the spring. It’s worked well again, here.

 

[stroller]

I direct drilled a cover crop but the rain pounded the soil down so hard I had to disc it and time drill my spring beans, if I hadn't the beans wouldn't have come to much, done that got the t-shirt.

 

[alomy75]

As far as I am concerned the box usually mentions refer to elsewhere on label for application rates/crop use which would link it to being a legal requirement.

If it was a legal requirement to plough a depth of whatever then min till would also be a breach. Example is kerb in osr. Ploughing from memory is on the label; I’d wager the vast majority of people don’t though before drilling wheat.

 

[delilah]

How many years has the field been PP?
How many years will it be ploughed up for?
What other tillage will go on?
What soil type? Different soils types will behave differently and give you different answers to the same question.
What will the other management practices be on the PP and DD land?
What crops will be grown?
Straw removed?
Compost/FYM applied?
Weather?
Etc etc etc etc.....

Still too many variables in your simple question.

The fact that it's the same field would make 'all other things being equal' the response to some of that. There must be empirical evidence to back up using public money to support DD ?

 

[warksfarmer]

I’ll put £50 (or an amount of your choice) to charity on it being £73/ha/year.

I think it’s £115/ha in CS.

 

[Huno]

I think it’s £115/ha in CS.

All of it will be CS and CS lite or diet CS or CS zero (formerly SFI) in the SUMMER!!
1 RPA administrator.. 1 software system( full of errors and manually inputted by RPA) and 1 hell of a mess for the next Gov.UK to try to fix... 50 quid to charity or 115 quid is the cost of a tank of fuel or half a tank full🫠

 

[B'o'B]

I think it’s £115/ha in CS.

That was only over historic/archeological features.
The SFI “no-till” payment can be over any arable land parcel.

 

[B'o'B]

All of it will be CS and CS lite or diet CS or CS zero (formerly SFI) in the SUMMER!!
1 RPA administrator.. 1 software system( full of errors and manually inputted by RPA) and 1 hell of a mess for the next Gov.UK to try to fix... 50 quid to charity or 115 quid is the cost of a tank of fuel or half a tank full🫠

I did offer you a sum of your choice, if £50 or £115 isn’t enough you could always go to £50,000 or £115,000 if you wanted to give more to charity!

 

[Huno]

That was only over historic/archeological features.
The SFI “no-till” payment can be over any arable land parcel.

Can it? We aint seen the rules yet???

 

[B'o'B]

Can it? We aint seen the rules yet???

Some “stakeholders” are currently being confidentially consulted about the draft SFI24 offer.

 

[Huno]

Some “stakeholders” are currently being confidentially consulted about the draft SFI24 offer.

Anyone who is anyone or just vaguely interested in what will replace the BPS life support system for farmers has engaged in consultation with Gov.UK consultants.. some paid some not... Disappointment with reality since 2021 is the real outcome for most... Promising the Earth really doesnt equate into reality.. bets still on

 

[B'o'B]

Anyone who is anyone or just vaguely interested in what will replace the BPS life support system for farmers has engaged in consultation with Gov.UK consultants.. some paid some not... Disappointment with reality since 2021 is the real outcome for most... Promising the Earth really doesnt equate into reality.. bets still on

Brace yourself for more disappointment.

 

[Huno]

Brace yourself for more disappointment.

Fair call! Given up on "them"..

 

[T Hectares]

How does that work in terms of the DD standard in SFI ? Does it count for the calendar year in which you DD the spring crop, so long as you then don't cultivate for the following crop that autumn ?

Taking a stab at this based on how other standards work, I would put in the parcels that I might DD for 3 consecutive years rather than the ones that I might want to use some shallow cultivations to establish a spring crop

That’s unless the stipulation is for the whole farm to be entered but that’s unlike any current standards

 

[Huno]

Brace yourself for more disappointment.

The other standards "won't work" DD payments are just the tip of an iceberg re standards and aims

 

[Grass And Grain]

Because from my extensive experience on heavy land this is the by far the most foolproof way of establishing a spring crop and utilising cover crops. Straight zero till spring crops into cover crops here has been very hit and miss over the years.

Just interested. How deep do you think you need to cultivate in summer before the CC ajd? Just a couple of inches or like 6 inches?

That's my point.
DD cover crop, cultivation pre drilling spring crop.
That's the opposite of what grass and grain proposed.

Suppose it would work either way? Would it?

We went straight into a stubble in spring with discs about 1.5-2"on clay, left it to dry a day, then went through again about 3" deep. Drilled next day. Cracking crop of spring barley. Was a drought year, but retained moisture for the crop as undisturbed deeper down.

Neighbour cultivates post harvest, cover crop, destroy in spring and DD. Works well for him.

If they were to say you've to commit to DD for each of the 3 agreement years on same parcel, then this makes it tricky if you want to do a light cultivation, even for the diehard DD farmers.

Better if they make it a bit more flexible, so you just make a claim if you've DD'd that season imho. Tricky.

I/We are one of the 50,000. At the moment we are still getting some dregs of Bps, But going forward will put claim in, possibly not get much but some to make up shortfall. I do not think DEFRA understand our good land and often the wheat/cereal is the break crop.
I will be absolutely gutted if things like no till will not be available in our specific situation. When elsewhere you here of straight combinables farm being supposedly no till then using certain chemicals/ herbicides and then they must be in breach of the label of that product owing to cultivation practice following application or following crop/cover crops not being on label as legal to be sown afterwards. IMO it will nearly be a big scandal that would affect all in the agricultural industry. I don't suppose it would go to Court but always interesting to see if the farmer would blame agronomist or himself for being in breach of label requirements.

RPA will know about the ploughing rules on the label, and about rules for cultivating in manures. Then they look to introduce a DD incentive. Not sure what I think, seems as though it's one rule for some people but no rule for others.

 

[ajd132]

Just interested. How deep do you think you need to cultivate in summer before the CC ajd? Just a couple of inches or like 6 inches?

Suppose it would work either way? Would it?

We went straight into a stubble in spring with discs about 1.5-2"on clay, left it to dry a day, then went through again about 3" deep. Drilled next day. Cracking crop of spring barley. Was a drought year, but retained moisture for the crop as undisturbed deeper down.

Neighbour cultivates post harvest, cover crop, destroy in spring and DD. Works well for him.

If they were to say you've to commit to DD for each of the 3 agreement years on same parcel, then this makes it tricky if you want to do a light cultivation, even for the diehard DD farmers.

Better if they make it a bit more flexible, so you just make a claim if you've DD'd that season imho. Tricky.


RPA will know about the ploughing rules on the label, and about rules for cultivating in manures. Then they look to introduce a DD incentive. Not sure what I think, seems as though it's one rule for some people but no rule for others.

I think it depends on all the usual reasons. I’ve just found that have some tilth to to play with in the spring helps things along. Had some really good no till spring crops but equally some complete disasters, very year dependant and too much risk for me