What are the likely eventualities from best to worst if buying land and 'abuse' the 28 day rule for staying on it?

[Rich_ard]

This is what I still haven't got an answer to yet...what will happen if reported?

Don't they then have to prove I am living there? I don't see how they can monitor my movements 24/7. If I get someone come round I will know they are 'on to me' at which point I could make myself scarce for a while. Take a trip around in my van etc.

Even if I am rumbled what happens then? What are the legal proceedings? Like I said above I would not mind if I got 6+ months (more the better) and just sell up if any heat came and find another place to try my luck again.

Will I just get told to clear off? Ie no legal penalties or fines so long as I don't resist and comply right away?

In my experience, once planning decide you need to move on that's what you will do. I'm in scotland and tried a static as a welfare unit but I either was reported or whatever. I moved it then got proper planning. Also got the house in the end too. Took a long time though.
I'd think about what you want and do it properly. What's the point in always having to move on. Get somewhere with a building already on it. It'll be easier to hide in without upsetting neighbours straight away.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I have read this thread with interest and I should be saying all of what you are proposing is wrong and unlawful - but that is not helpful - you already know that by the way you are trying to avoid confrontation with the authorities.

I will try to clarify what happens if you do get found out:

1. You will most likely get a visit from a Planning Enforcement Officer - they have the right of entry to any land to investigate potential breaches of planning.
2. They will suggest you stop the unlawful activities, these will likely be defined as 'siting of a mobile home for residential use and the unlawful use of agricultural land for personal enjoyment' - even the growing of veggies is unlaful unless part of a commercial venture.
3. Should you not cease, then they will issue you a Planning Contravention Notice (PCN), this will be sent to the landowners registerd address and possibly handed to you in person.
4. You will have 28 days to complete the PCN and return it to the council.
5. Upon receipt of the PCN the council will determine whether they will take formal action, they may offer you the opportunity to submit a retrospective planning application - this will delay the next stage of enfocement but does not confer any sort of permission to stay.
6. An Enforcement Notice (EN) will be issued following the PCN or a failed planning application.
7. You have 28 days to comply with the EN, or the council will take you to court.
8. Court proceedings can result in fines, forcable removal, injunctions against the land.
9. Continued refusal to comply can result in custodial sentances.

Bare in mind that once an EN has been served it will be on public record and will likely devalue the land, even if it is complied with.

 

[Goweresque]

I have read this thread with interest and I should be saying all of what you are proposing is wrong and unlawful - but that is not helpful - you already know that by the way you are trying to avoid confrontation with the authorities.

I will try to clarify what happens if you do get found out:

1. You will most likely get a visit from a Planning Enforcement Officer - they have the right of entry to any land to investigate potential breaches of planning.
2. They will suggest you stop the unlawful activities, these will likely be defined as 'siting of a mobile home for residential use and the unlawful use of agricultural land for personal enjoyment' - even the growing of veggies is unlaful unless part of a commercial venture.
3. Should you not cease, then they will issue you a Planning Contravention Notice (PCN), this will be sent to the landowners registerd address and possibly handed to you in person.
4. You will have 28 days to complete the PCN and return it to the council.
5. Upon receipt of the PCN the council will determine whether they will take formal action, they may offer you the opportunity to submit a retrospective planning application - this will delay the next stage of enfocement but does not confer any sort of permission to stay.
6. An Enforcement Notice (EN) will be issued following the PCN or a failed planning application.
7. You have 28 days to comply with the EN, or the council will take you to court.
8. Court proceedings can result in fines, forcable removal, injunctions against the land.
9. Continued refusal to comply can result in custodial sentances.

Bare in mind that once an EN has been served it will be on public record and will likely devalue the land, even if it is complied with.

Or none of the above if you are a 'protected species'.

Travellers building on land without permission, say angry locals

Residents of one street in Nantyglo claim travellers are building on land outside their homes 'illegally'.

www.southwalesargus.co.uk

 

[suffolksmallholder]

A friend has 50 acres of prime land….in NZ. He has a 40’ shipping container that is a garage/home and piped water on the site.
As a lad born in the UK he was lucky to buy a decade ago so didn't have to have been born in NZ itself to purchase.
There are one or two small parcels dotted around here with ‘vans/yurts’ and these are accepted as normal.
A PO box is no hardship.
I had a nice spot near Lampeter when I was young, where I could unwind in the heady days of money chasing. I even had a bank account at Nat West in Lampeter itself.
The place was spoiled by someone shooting a .22 rimfire through my temporary home at head height so I gave up the idea of living in Wales.
SS

 

[SoilHugger]

I have read this thread with interest and I should be saying all of what you are proposing is wrong and unlawful - but that is not helpful - you already know that by the way you are trying to avoid confrontation with the authorities.

I will try to clarify what happens if you do get found out:

1. You will most likely get a visit from a Planning Enforcement Officer - they have the right of entry to any land to investigate potential breaches of planning.
2. They will suggest you stop the unlawful activities, these will likely be defined as 'siting of a mobile home for residential use and the unlawful use of agricultural land for personal enjoyment' - even the growing of veggies is unlaful unless part of a commercial venture.
3. Should you not cease, then they will issue you a Planning Contravention Notice (PCN), this will be sent to the landowners registerd address and possibly handed to you in person.
4. You will have 28 days to complete the PCN and return it to the council.
5. Upon receipt of the PCN the council will determine whether they will take formal action, they may offer you the opportunity to submit a retrospective planning application - this will delay the next stage of enfocement but does not confer any sort of permission to stay.
6. An Enforcement Notice (EN) will be issued following the PCN or a failed planning application.
7. You have 28 days to comply with the EN, or the council will take you to court.
8. Court proceedings can result in fines, forcable removal, injunctions against the land.
9. Continued refusal to comply can result in custodial sentances.

Bare in mind that once an EN has been served it will be on public record and will likely devalue the land, even if it is complied with.

Thank you for the detailed outline of the likely process.

 

[PhilipB]

I have read this thread with interest and I should be saying all of what you are proposing is wrong and unlawful - but that is not helpful - you already know that by the way you are trying to avoid confrontation with the authorities.

I will try to clarify what happens if you do get found out:

1. You will most likely get a visit from a Planning Enforcement Officer - they have the right of entry to any land to investigate potential breaches of planning.
2. They will suggest you stop the unlawful activities, these will likely be defined as 'siting of a mobile home for residential use and the unlawful use of agricultural land for personal enjoyment' - even the growing of veggies is unlaful unless part of a commercial venture.
3. Should you not cease, then they will issue you a Planning Contravention Notice (PCN), this will be sent to the landowners registerd address and possibly handed to you in person.
4. You will have 28 days to complete the PCN and return it to the council.
5. Upon receipt of the PCN the council will determine whether they will take formal action, they may offer you the opportunity to submit a retrospective planning application - this will delay the next stage of enfocement but does not confer any sort of permission to stay.
6. An Enforcement Notice (EN) will be issued following the PCN or a failed planning application.
7. You have 28 days to comply with the EN, or the council will take you to court.
8. Court proceedings can result in fines, forcable removal, injunctions against the land.
9. Continued refusal to comply can result in custodial sentances.

Bare in mind that once an EN has been served it will be on public record and will likely devalue the land, even if it is complied with.

It's worth pointing out that if you establish any kind of leg to stand on you can slow down this process considerably.

In a situation with a caravan we submitted an application 2 years after the council's first letter, and the trail from the council's end had completely cold and they hadn't chased my agent for months.

(Decision still pending, so I can't tell you how the story ends)

 

[SoilHugger]

It's worth pointing out that if you establish any kind of leg to stand on you can slow down this process considerably.

In a situation with a caravan we submitted an application 2 years after the council's first letter, and the trail from the council's end had completely cold and they hadn't chased my agent for months.

(Decision still pending, so I can't tell you how the story ends)

How were you able to stay for 2 years after the first letter and what spurred you to send one after 2 years? Did they only contact you again about it after that time at which point you then acted?

 

[PhilipB]

How were you able to stay for 2 years after the first letter and what spurred you to send one after 2 years? Did they only contact you again about it after that time at which point you then acted?

It isn't me in the caravan. I'm just the landowner. There was lots of prior history and agricultural stuff going on.

Basically, got letter from council.

Land agent attended meeting with the planning chap, assures him that he's dealing with professionals.

As I recall the meeting with the agent telling the planning officer that they'd be in touch to tell him how we planned to play it.

A couple of months passed. Officer got a bit impatient. Agent assures him a pre-app will be submitted.

Pre-app goes in. A good six months has passed by this point.

Agent takes a couple more months to decide how to proceed based on the pre-app advice.

It was about this time that they stopped the pressure - we only really submitted the eventual application because I wanted clarity on the situation.

 

[Rich_ard]

I have read this thread with interest and I should be saying all of what you are proposing is wrong and unlawful - but that is not helpful - you already know that by the way you are trying to avoid confrontation with the authorities.

I will try to clarify what happens if you do get found out:

1. You will most likely get a visit from a Planning Enforcement Officer - they have the right of entry to any land to investigate potential breaches of planning.
2. They will suggest you stop the unlawful activities, these will likely be defined as 'siting of a mobile home for residential use and the unlawful use of agricultural land for personal enjoyment' - even the growing of veggies is unlaful unless part of a commercial venture.
3. Should you not cease, then they will issue you a Planning Contravention Notice (PCN), this will be sent to the landowners registerd address and possibly handed to you in person.
4. You will have 28 days to complete the PCN and return it to the council.
5. Upon receipt of the PCN the council will determine whether they will take formal action, they may offer you the opportunity to submit a retrospective planning application - this will delay the next stage of enfocement but does not confer any sort of permission to stay.
6. An Enforcement Notice (EN) will be issued following the PCN or a failed planning application.
7. You have 28 days to comply with the EN, or the council will take you to court.
8. Court proceedings can result in fines, forcable removal, injunctions against the land.
9. Continued refusal to comply can result in custodial sentances.

Bare in mind that once an EN has been served it will be on public record and will likely devalue the land, even if it is complied with.

Would it be possible to get planning for a holiday home/caravan easier. Then only stay in it as needed without going for residential use?

 

[renewablejohn]

Simple answer buy 13 small woodland plots and build a woodland work cabin on each plot. You then have 28 days on each plot to manage the woodland for the year.

 

[Rich_ard]

Simple answer buy 13 small woodland plots and build a woodland work cabin on each plot. You then have 28 days on each plot to manage the woodland for the year.

Could you move the work cabin to the next plot?

 

[renewablejohn]

Could you move the work cabin to the next plot?

Why would you do that as its already covered under rules for temporary caravan sites.

 

[Rich_ard]

Why would you do that as its already covered under rules for temporary caravan sites.

Only need 1 cabin as opposed to 13

 

[SoilHugger]

Why would you do that as its already covered under rules for temporary caravan sites.

Indeed but why not use a mobile home/campervan instead. They are much easier to move and have read about this strategy a couple of times during my research on this topic.

Most have been hypothetical but I think I read one who actually had gone through with it and the seller reluctantly accepted to break it up into 12 individual plots.

 

[renewablejohn]

Indeed but why not use a mobile home/campervan instead. They are much easier to move and have read about this strategy a couple of times during my research on this topic.

Most have been hypothetical but I think I read one who actually had gone through with it and the seller reluctantly accepted to break it up into 12 individual plots.

Because the caravan rules from memory allow upto 5 caravans upto 28 days on any one site but that does not include a permanent caravan all year round for the owner. Whereas the woodland upkeep rules allows for a permanent cabin to be erected on each site to allow woodlands to be maintained with an annual usage of upto 28 days.

 

[curlietailz]

Every piece of land has at least one neighbour and they will know what you are doing.