Sam 3

Derrick Hughes · Mar 2, 2024

som farmer said:
just got out my trusty Cotswold seed catalogue

their GS4/SAM3 mixes are from£76.22/ac to £83.53/ac

with 2 over seeding mixes £59.74 to £46.53

so big difference to £140+ ac, vetch per kg, isn't dear either

they do a simple to full herbal leys, £79.08 to £105.30, but don't specify GS4/SAM3 on the blurp

thought might cause some discussion by posting the prices, might even make some sharpen their pencil a bit.

Sam 3 Full Herbal £52 to £70
Sam 3 overseed £42
But it also depends on acres
Most seed merchants have not seen the size of orders they are getting now , the average order for seed in the past has been around 20 acres , not many enquiries for SF1 are under 300 acres

Derrick Hughes · Mar 2, 2024

YELROM said:
View attachment 1167740

This is what they now recommend for a sam3 mix

I have noticed that has replaced the 2 of everything that was on there before but disappeared, but there you go , im glad I'm not growing any

slackjawedyokel · Mar 2, 2024

som farmer said:
just got out my trusty Cotswold seed catalogue

their GS4/SAM3 mixes are from£76.22/ac to £83.53/ac

with 2 over seeding mixes £59.74 to £46.53

so big difference to £140+ ac, vetch per kg, isn't dear either

they do a simple to full herbal leys, £79.08 to £105.30, but don't specify GS4/SAM3 on the blurp

thought might cause some discussion by posting the prices, might even make some sharpen their pencil a bit.

Yeah- it’s the organic bit that makes it expensive. I think they currently have to be at least 70% organic.
was paying ~76/ac back 15 years ago

Luke Cropwalker · Mar 2, 2024

Derrick Hughes said:
Have you found a seed company that will stamp a Ticket Sam 3 or are you going to go alone with it

You might stamp a label on a seed bag with SAM3, but just because a label doesn't have a SAM3 stamp doesn't mean it doesn't meet the required standard.

Derrick Hughes · Mar 2, 2024

Luke Cropwalker said:
You might stamp a label on a seed bag with SAM3, but just because a label doesn't have a SAM3 stamp doesn't mean it doesn't meet the required standard.

Never said it didn't, but if a seed company stamps Sam 3 on a mix it does not recommend and it fails to meet the standard they are then liable
Do you know the exact evidence they are asking for. Apart from a lot of photos?

Kevtherev · Mar 3, 2024

With all these mixtures make sure the criteria is met and speak to advisors who know what they are talking about.
Lot of seed in a lot of European warehouses sitting waiting for customers.
There’s a lot jumping on trying to make money on the scheme it’s not just about selling a product it’s the follow up and company after care and advice.
This applies to standard grass&clover mixtures as well.

Derrick Hughes · Mar 3, 2024

Kevtherev said:
With all these mixtures make sure the criteria is met and speak to advisors who know what they are talking about.
Lot of seed in a lot of European warehouses sitting waiting for customers.
There’s a lot jumping on trying to make money on the scheme it’s not just about selling a product it’s the follow up and company after care and advice.
This applies to standard grass&clover mixtures as well.

By what I've been told by merchants and one of the major importers European warehouses have put a stop to sending herb and legumes over , one merchant said he had his order cancelled from Europe that was ordered in October
I'm sure others will contradict what I say but I do import a fair bit of seed

Kevtherev · Mar 3, 2024

Derrick Hughes · Mar 8, 2024

Sam3 Overseed 2 Grass version

0.50 Timothy

1.00 Diceros Cocksfoot Soft Leaved

1.00 Red Clover

1.00 White clover

0.10 Leo Birdsfoot Trefoil

0.40 Chicory

0.35 Plantain

0.05 Yarrow

0.05 Burnet

0.05 Sheeps Parsley

Derrick Hughes · Mar 11, 2024

Whats everyone's take on Sam3
My advisers are wanting me to stick with 5-3-5 , a lot if farmers are wanting a basic mix, 2 if everything?

Badshot · Mar 11, 2024

Derrick Hughes said:
Whats everyone's take on Sam3
My advisers are wanting me to stick with 5-3-5 , a lot if farmers are wanting a basic mix, 2 if everything?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65a114e53308d200131fbee7/SFI23_handbook__1_.pdf

That is the V4 handbook.

Those are the rules that HAVE to be followed.

The links in it to the VOLUNTARY guidance do not have to be followed.

It's simple really, if someone wants it to say SAM 3 on the label, so they can wave it at an inspector, they have to follow your advice.

If they're asking for a specific mix they have decided upon themselves, they will get a label showing what's in it, but not saying SAM 3 compliant. The onus is on them to show to SFI team that they have met the aim.

I've made my own mind up, come up with my own mixes, I'll be the one where the buck stops.

som farmer · Mar 11, 2024

Derrick Hughes said:
Whats everyone's take on Sam3
My advisers are wanting me to stick with 5-3-5 , a lot if farmers are wanting a basic mix, 2 if everything?

the rules seem quite clear, 2+2+2.
however, having dealt with RPA/DEFRA for years, nobody quite believes they can bring out something so simple. A matter of trust, which currently, very few trust them.

finalising our claim today, with FWAG, hopefully we can clear up some of theses 'grey' areas, l will post some 'cleared up' points, later. If they get clearer !!

Derrick Hughes · Mar 11, 2024

som farmer said:
the rules seem quite clear, 2+2+2.
however, having dealt with RPA/DEFRA for years, nobody quite believes they can bring out something so simple. A matter of trust, which currently, very few trust them.

finalising our claim today, with FWAG, hopefully we can clear up some of theses 'grey' areas, l will post some 'cleared up' points, later. If they get clearer !!

Where does it state 2 2 2 ?

Badshot · Mar 11, 2024

Derrick Hughes said:
Where does it state 2 2 2 ?

It doesn't.
It simply states a mixture of grass, legumes, herbs.
And if you already have it established, that's fine too.

Derrick Hughes · Mar 11, 2024

Badshot said:
It doesn't.
It simply states a mixture of grass, legumes, herbs.
And if you already have it established, that's fine too.

Choose a seed mix which has at least:

5 species of grass
3 species of legumes
5 species of herbs or wildflowers

Create and maintain herbal leys – Farming

Updates from Defra's Farming and Countryside Programme

defrafarming.blog.gov.uk

Badshot · Mar 11, 2024

Derrick Hughes said:
Choose a seed mix which has at least:

5 species of grass
3 species of legumes
5 species of herbs or wildflowers

Create and maintain herbal leys – Farming

Updates from Defra's Farming and Countryside Programme

defrafarming.blog.gov.uk

That's guidance only

Read the damned handbook.
It clearly says it's guidance only and you do not have to follow it

Samcowman · Mar 11, 2024

Derrick Hughes said:
Choose a seed mix which has at least:

5 species of grass
3 species of legumes
5 species of herbs or wildflowers

Create and maintain herbal leys – Farming

Updates from Defra's Farming and Countryside Programme

defrafarming.blog.gov.uk

Derek please read what the link says. That link was for SFI PILOT only.

2tractors · Mar 11, 2024

My view is that the seed mix is not fixed- the payment is to achieve the action which is to provide varied root structures, how the farmer achieves that is up to him. Farmers need to be careful with using Sam 3 on old permanent pastures, it is only allowed on improved grassland (as well as TG01 and arable land) that has a high proportion of PRG and clovers not some old worn out low pH land that hasn't seen reseeding for 30 years!

Just presenting a seed label with SAM 3 on it may not be sufficient?
.

Derrick Hughes · Mar 11, 2024

som farmer said:
the rules seem quite clear, 2+2+2.
however, having dealt with RPA/DEFRA for years, nobody quite believes they can bring out something so simple. A matter of trust, which currently, very few trust them.

finalising our claim today, with FWAG, hopefully we can clear up some of theses 'grey' areas, l will post some 'cleared up' points, later. If they get clearer !!

Ok thanks

Derrick Hughes · Mar 11, 2024

Badshot said:
That's guidance only

Read the damned handbook.
It clearly says it's guidance only and you do not have to follow it

Yes but it gives you a route map to achieve it

Sam 3

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